GFCI Tripping GFCI upstream...

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CBL

CBL

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Hi, not sure if I worded that right but I was at a house doing a service call and was ask to install an outside outlet...I tapped off an existing recepticale on the oppisete side of the wall and installed a weatherproof j-box and a GFCI then a bubble cover. I put in a gfci receptacle tester and pressed the test button on the tester and it shut off the power to a gfci upstream in the upstairs bathroom I did'nt realize was even there. I was surprised it didn't shut off the gfci I was testing instead of the one upstream of the one I just installed. Is this how it works? I thought it should shut off at the one I was testing with the plug-in tester??? The gfci in the bathroom is controling outlets all over the house, upstairs bed/bathroom and outlets in downstairs bathroom and living room and I think I should disconnect what's coming off the load side of it and install any other needed gfci's independantly. Thanks, JB
 
All the tester did was create an intentional ground fault. The GFI in the bath just happened to shut off first.
If the GFI in the bath is turning off other receps, could it be because they are not grounded? The house may not be wired to current codes, so the bath recep was the first one in line, so that's where the GFI went.
 
CBL said:
Hi, not sure if I worded that right but I was at a house doing a service call and was ask to install an outside outlet...I tapped off an existing recepticale on the oppisete side of the wall and installed a weatherproof j-box and a GFCI then a bubble cover. I put in a gfci receptacle tester and pressed the test button on the tester and it shut off the power to a gfci upstream in the upstairs bathroom I did'nt realize was even there. I was surprised it didn't shut off the gfci I was testing instead of the one upstream of the one I just installed. Is this how it works? I thought it should shut off at the one I was testing with the plug-in tester??? The gfci in the bathroom is controling outlets all over the house, upstairs bed/bathroom and outlets in downstairs bathroom and living room and I think I should disconnect what's coming off the load side of it and install any other needed gfci's independantly. Thanks, JB
Click to expand...

Outlets triping in the other bathrooms is ok and to code. What is not to code is the livingroom and bedroom outlets on the same circuit with the bath recpticals. Your added outside outlet on the bathroom gfi is also not to code. How old is this house? Code requirements do change over the years.
 
Yes, but you don't rewire a house every three years. Depending on the age of the house, a bath circuit wasn't required, but a GFI there took care of the downstream receps, or someone didn't know/care the difference between line and load.
 
For many a year, all of the then-required GFCI-protected receptacles were on one circuit. The home-run hit the closest bath first, and then split from there; a run up for all of the other baths, and one down for the exterior ones; sometimes, even the garage receptacle(s).

However, for the subject at hand, a GFCI receptacle's build-in test circuit uses the ungrounded and grounded conductors, so there is no logical reason for an upstream receptacle to trip. Unless, of course, older GFCI receptacles used the EGC for the test circuit.
 
480sparky said:
Yes, but you don't rewire a house every three years. Depending on the age of the house, a bath circuit wasn't required, but a GFI there took care of the downstream receps, or someone didn't know/care the difference between line and load.
Click to expand...

I was under the impression that (prior to recent changes to UL) if line/load were reversed that the GFI would function & test properly with the local test button but would not trip downstream. Never tried it myself though...
 
Cavie said:
Outlets triping in the other bathrooms is ok and to code. What is not to code is the livingroom and bedroom outlets on the same circuit with the bath recpticals. Your added outside outlet on the bathroom gfi is also not to code. How old is this house? Code requirements do change over the years.
Click to expand...
I didn't realize it was connected to the bathroom gfci. I tapped a bedroom outlet and ran it through the wall to an outside balcony...I agree that the added outlet and other outlets shouldn't be on the bathroom circuit??? This is why I wanted to make the needed gfci's (bathrooms/outside receptacle)independant and hook up to the line side only even though it's on the same circuit
 
LarryFine said:
However, for the subject at hand, a GFCI receptacle's build-in test circuit uses the ungrounded and grounded conductors, so there is no logical reason for an upstream receptacle to trip. Unless, of course, older GFCI receptacles used the EGC for the test circuit.
Click to expand...
I thought it should trip the one I was testing since it was plugged into that one..also I only connected the line side of the gfci:confused:
 
brantmacga said:
the gfi should not work at all if the line/load are reversed.
Click to expand...
I agree 100% and have hooked them up this way and they won't let you set the test button...
>>>sorry for the multiple post I need to figure out how to put them all on the same reply:confused:
Thanks for the input everyone...JB
 
LarryFine said:
However, for the subject at hand, a GFCI receptacle's build-in test circuit uses the ungrounded and grounded conductors, so there is no logical reason for an upstream receptacle to trip. Unless, of course, older GFCI receptacles used the EGC for the test circuit.
Click to expand...
Doesn't the plug in 3 light gfci tester use the ground for the test? is this the reason it tripped the the one upstream? The test button on the gfci I added worked fine and only tripped that one...
 
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CBL said:
I thought it should trip the one I was testing since it was plugged into that one..also I only connected the line side of the gfci:confused:
Click to expand...
My bad. I didn't realize that you meant a plug-in tester, rather than the built-in button. Yes, a plug-in tester does indeed use the EGC, since it can't access either circuit conductor ahead of the current differential sensor.

Therefore, it could very likely trip one or more upstream GFCI devices. Multiple tests could show that a different device might trip each time, or the "faster" (or more sensitive) one will win the race with every test.

CBL said:
Doesn't the plug in 3 light gfci tester use the ground for the test? is this the reason it tripped the the one upstream? The test button on the gfci I added worked fine and only tripped that one...
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct.
 
So what are the thoughts of installing the gfci's independantly and only connecting to the line side where they are needed?? So they don't shut off other outlets in the house. The only reason I found out that the living room outlet(s) were on the same circuit is the TV kept resetting and showing a white logo on a black screen when the gfci was reset and I happen to see it walking down the hall at the top of the stairs..
 
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