Gfi breakers tripping

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jimport

jimport

Senior Member
Location
Outside Baltimore Maryland
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Master Electrician
Looking for some ideas. Went on a service call today. Maintenance says that 35 out of 42 townhomes have tripping breakers over the last week or so. Interviewed some residents that state breakers are tripping even without anything in use and can trip multiple times a day. Breakers are all Square D QO gfi with purple buttons. Homes were built about 5 years ago.

Thanks for any help.
 
The OP title says GFI (GFCI) . But a Square D breaker with a purple test button is a dual function AFCI/GFCI. The OP needs to run the diagnostics as a start.
 
The power company is saying it is not on their side. Looked like several transformers in the neighborhood.

Texie, the breakers are even tripping in unoccupied units. There were 6 in one empty unit this afternoon. None of the afci are having an issue.
 
jimport said:
The power company is saying it is not on their side. Looked like several transformers in the neighborhood.

Texie, the breakers are even tripping in unoccupied units. There were 6 in one empty unit this afternoon. None of the afci are having an issue.
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Do you know what a dual function breaker is?
 
Look around for a big Ham Radio antenna... Some GFCIs have been known to be susceptible to RF interference. There was a video going around a couple of years ago (maybe I saw it here?) showing a guy keying up his mic next to a panel and the GFCIs tripped.

Found it:
 
Jraef said:
There was a video going around a couple of years ago (maybe I saw it here?) showing a guy keying up his mic next to a panel and the GFCIs tripped.

Found it:
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I have some of those radios - I'll have to try it. Those were GFCIs and not AFCIs, right?
 
I saw that video and actually proved it for myself at a condo building in Jersey City, NJ. The security guards claimed that the snow melting circuits were tripped when they arrived at work in the morning. I borrowed one of their walkie-talkies and went into one of the electric rooms where the breakers were located. All I did was key the mic and 8 breakers tripped at the same time. Now, granted, I was in close proximity to the breakers but the security staff would key the mics while on patrol and the wiring for the snow melting equipment acted like an antenna and still caused the breakers to trip
 
jimport said:
The power company is saying it is not on their side. Looked like several transformers in the neighborhood.

Texie, the breakers are even tripping in unoccupied units. There were 6 in one empty unit this afternoon. None of the afci are having an issue.
Click to expand...
I wonder if disconnecting the load connections on GFCI breakers in some unoccupied units would be useful for a test. If they still trip then the line / POCO side of things is more likely to be the source of RFI, bad power quality, etc. that could be causing the tripping.

Are these units wired with 1.) NM, or with 2.) MC, conduit, etc. that's shielded? The latter should be less susceptible to acting like an antenna and picking up RFI.
 
Texie, I was trying to say that the only breakers having an issue had the gfi component. None of the cafci were having an tripping reported.

Homes are wired with NM. Panel looked pristine and the panels I saw all had the same arrangement on the circuit directories.

Larry, I had considered a bad batch, but for so many to start having issues all in the same week seems to be against the odds.
 
jimport said:
......... Breakers are all Square D QO gfi with purple buttons. .........
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A purple button indicates it's a GFCI/AFCI breaker. So it could be ground faults, it could be arc faults.

My guess is going to be ground faults caused by tremendously sloppy work where the bare ground is touching the neutral terminals in some receptacle. Put a load on the circuit, and it trips.
 
480sparky said:
A purple button indicates it's a GFCI/AFCI breaker. So it could be ground faults, it could be arc faults.

My guess is going to be ground faults caused by tremendously sloppy work where the bare ground is touching the neutral terminals in some receptacle. Put a load on the circuit, and it trips.
Click to expand...

Except that there has been no issue for 5 years and to have to same 6 breakers tripping across multiple units defies the odds.
 
jimport said:
I think the maintenance person said something about a strong storm in the area around same time as this started.
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Then there is a possibility as Denis suggested that a surge from lightning damaged the GFCI breakers. Perhaps you could try replacing a limited number of breakers to see if they don't trip while the others still do.
 
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jimport said:
Except that there has been no issue for 5 years and to have to same 6 breakers tripping across multiple units defies the odds.
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Wait, you have a bunch of 'cookie cutter ' homes, all wired alike, and the same 6 breakers are tripping across different units, some unoccupied?

Jon
 
jimport said:
The power company is saying it is not on their side. Looked like several transformers in the neighborhood.

Texie, the breakers are even tripping in unoccupied units. There were 6 in one empty unit this afternoon. None of the afci are having an issue.
Click to expand...

1. Utilities almost always say that until you troubleshoot it and prove otherwise. Best not to even call until you have found the problem. I mean you give them an open problem to solve. So the guy checks at the transformer and measures 120/120/240. Yep, no issues!

GFCI reacts to a small difference in current between line and neutral. Ground is not involved at all directly. But this is strictly a load issue. AFCI reacts to arcing voltages OT currents and can react to intermittent arcing faults on either side. Run the diagnostics on the unit itself then look for loose connections...look at voltage with a big load running like HVAC wide open with the dryer cranked on high. If you see a significant drop start working backwards to the pole
 
winnie said:
Wait, you have a bunch of 'cookie cutter ' homes, all wired alike, and the same 6 breakers are tripping across different units, some unoccupied?

Jon
Click to expand...

Yes, 35 out of 42 homes are reporting the same issue, including an empty unit. I talked to 4 residents and all are having issues with the same 6 breakers, all of which have the gfi component along with afci. None of the straight afci breakers are tripping .
 
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