GFI for sump pump

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Rick Long said:
Unfinished basement with a sump pump not pluged into a a GFI receptical. Is this per code or not?
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There has been a long thread on this exact topic. I was one that believes you need GFCI protection but others have sited 210.8(A)(5) except.2-- in that case no you would not need one.
I would check with the inspector for his/her interpretation.
 
mdshunk said:
Seems like most of the sump pump manuals I've bothered to read lately want GFCI protection, per the manufacturer.
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Bothered to read? We know you read everything. (as we all do)
 
I for one will be recommending 240 volt sump pumps to all of my customers when the new rule takes affect. There are places around here where the pumps cycle on and off every minute during the winter and spring. One GFCI trip and there goes tens of thousands of dollars worth of finished basement. Personally I think that there should be an exception to allow a twist lock receptacle and plug for an unprotected circuit used for sump pumps.
 
chris kennedy said:
Bothered to read? We know you read everything. (as we all do)
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I don't read so many install manuals, but lacking clear consensus on the GFCI matter, I decided to skim a few the last couple years to see what the manufacturer might have to say about it. Those tankless water heaters are another thing that the manufacturer's want GFCI protection on that I might not have thought of if I hadn't skimmed the booklet. I sorta pity new construction electricians a little bit, because there often isn't time (alotted/permitted) to read the manuals of the stuff you're installing. In service work, you have all the time the world for that sort of thing. Makes me think I picked the right route.
 
infinity said:
I for one will be recommending 240 volt sump pumps to all of my customers when the new rule takes affect.
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That's a fine idea there, for a couple of reasons. The GFCI issue that you already voiced, and yet another thing for electricians to upsell.
 
infinity said:
I for one will be recommending 240 volt sump pumps to all of my customers when the new rule takes affect. There are places around here where the pumps cycle on and off every minute during the winter and spring. One GFCI trip and there goes tens of thousands of dollars worth of finished basement. Personally I think that there should be an exception to allow a twist lock receptacle and plug for an unprotected circuit used for sump pumps.
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I'm sure GFI alarms will be right around the corner.... :roll:
 
stickboy1375 said:
I'm sure GFI alarms will be right around the corner.... :roll:
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I've already been upselling sump pump high level alarms for years. I use the Tank Alert septic alarms that SJE Rhombus makes for this purpose. They're about 35 bucks at the plumbing supply house. http://www.sjerhombus.com/pdfs/catalog/1012517E.TA1.pdf This, along with battery sump pump systems, are easy sales when a person just suffered a flood.
 
stickboy1375 said:
I'm sure GFI alarms will be right around the corner.... :roll:
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My basement will flood without a sump pump in the spring.

IMO I would be irresponsible to expect that the pump will always operate. Because of that I keep everything of value off the basment floor.

The utility can fail

The pump can fail

The switch can fail

And yes the GFCI may trip.

There are water alarms that are inexpensive and easy to install.

One of my friends has such a sump issue he has a water powered back up sump pump in case the electric fails.
 
iwire said:
One of my friends has such a sump issue he has a water powered back up sump pump in case the electric fails.
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They're really neat, but very expensive. Worth every penny, I suppose, if you're so troubled.

Reminds me of a service upgrade I did maybe 2 years ago. Older folks. I cut the drop and start to tear the old service equipment off the side of the house. The lady of the house comes out and asks me, "How long do you suppose the power will be out? My husband is downstairs with buckets bailing out the sump pump hole". I was speechless for a minute. It never dawned on me that someone would ever think you could do a service upgrade without having the power off. I got them temporary power for the sump pump PDQ and all was well. It was a dry day that day, and hadn't rained in a few days, but their sump pump still kicked on about every minute. That's a heck of a lot of water.
 
stickboy1375 said:
I'm sure GFI alarms will be right around the corner.... :roll:
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Well... a proper sump system should have a high water alarm at the least.

FWIW, after having my basement flooded last year I had a complete perimeter drain system installed with redundant pumps -- 3 of 'em... Two 120v pumps on separate dedicated GFCI circuits, with the 3rd marine battery powered pump as the failover if the power goes out (or both GFCIs trip).

If the battery powered pump kicks in, an alarm sounds. Battery operated high water alarm sounds if the 3rd pump is overwhelmed. At that point I guess one gets the buckets?? :-?

Of course now I'm hoping for a flood in order to prove to the wife that all this was worth it! No luck so far :)
 
The 240v model is a good option. . The one draw back is that it wouldn't allow me to circuit as I always did. . I always put a first floor hallway light on the same circuit as the sump pump. . I never have put a sump pump on a GFCI, but if I was still contracting, I guess I would have to adjust starting next year.

I would go for either the 240v
or
I would put a first floor hallway light on the load side of the GFCI.

That doesn't help if you're away from home. . When my dad leaves home he has a plug in his entry/foyer room near the front window that's on the same circuit as his sump pump. . He plugs in a lamp with a 20w bulb and faces it out the window. . I drive by during my work route and see if the lights on. . He lives down in a valley and if it rains his sump runs every minute. . He has a battery backup but that doesn't last very long. . If the power is out, he has a Honda moble gas generator in his garage that I can carry outside and fire up to run the sump. . That thing with run most of the day on one fill of its little gas tank.

If you have a trustworthy neighbor or a friend/family that lives close, anybody can jump off of GFCI load terminals and supply a lone plug near a front window. . Also anybody can resupply a hall switch with a GFCI load and make sure they know immediately when the sump has lost power.

No option is perfect, but some of them make a big difference.

David
 
tallguy said:
Well... a proper sump system should have a high water alarm at the least.

FWIW, after having my basement flooded last year I had a complete perimeter drain system installed with redundant pumps -- 3 of 'em... Two 120v pumps on separate dedicated GFCI circuits, with the 3rd marine battery powered pump as the failover if the power goes out (or both GFCIs trip).

If the battery powered pump kicks in, an alarm sounds. Battery operated high water alarm sounds if the 3rd pump is overwhelmed. At that point I guess one gets the buckets?? :-?

Of course now I'm hoping for a flood in order to prove to the wife that all this was worth it! No luck so far :)
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So what happens if you're not home ?
 
dnem said:
So what happens if you're not home ?
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If I'm on vacation and the power goes out for more than a few hours... I've got a problem. The battery will only run for 4-6 hours. So, it's not a solution that would work for some of the situations mentioned above (assuming you sort posts with oldest at top!) where running continuously in light rain is the norm.

In my case it takes a true flood for that to happen though. I'd know what was going on and get home and then.... ummmm... run to HD and fight in line for a generator??
 
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