gfi on arc fault

[1968mustang]

I had an inspector fail me for having an outside gfi receptacle tied to a bedroom arc fault breaker. I talked to some other electrician and they too have not heard of this being a code violation. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

 

[bjp_ne_elec]

One question - is the GFCI fed from the load side of the AFCI?

 

[1968mustang]

15A arc fault breakerin panel fed to (2) 15A receptacles then to a 15A GFI and then (2) more 15A receptacles.

 

[M. D.]

IMO no violation.
Did the inspector know why he failed this installation??

 

[1968mustang]

I'm not sure. He did call his boss and he said the same thing.

 

[1968mustang]

On another house i had a gfi within two feet of a bathroom in a hall way on an arc fault and the inspector had me remove the gfi and replace with a regular receptacle.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Mustang,

Ask the inspector for chapter and verse from the NEC. If he is actually saying a GFI receptacle can't be supplied by an AFCI branch circuit, he won't be able to give you the requirement.

A GFI works just fine when installed on an AFCI protected circuit.

As an aside, the progress on the 2008 NEC, at this point, looks like ALL circuits in a dwelling (not just the bedroom) that supply 15 and 20 amp 125 volt outlets will be required to have AFCI over current protection. . .That includes, among others, the bath outlets, the kitchen counter outlets, the garage outlets, the outside outlets, etc. You know, all the typical places that are GFI protected.

 

[1968mustang]

I'm taking it as they are saying no GFI on an AFCI.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Like I said, the inspector can't use the NEC to back up his call.

The NEC citation saying "No GFI shall be installed on an AFCI protected circuit" does not exist.

If it is a local law modifying the NEC, then the inspector should tell you what it is so you can look it up and read it.

 

[bkludecke]

Like I said, the inspector can't use the NEC to back up his call.

The NEC citation saying "No GFI shall be installed on an AFCI protected circuit" does not exist.

If it is a local law modifying the NEC, then the inspector should tell you what it is so you can look it up and read it.

I agree, we do this all the time. Some of the homes have a dressing table or make-up counter which seems to be in the master bedroom so the inspector REQUIRES us to put the recepts on an AFCI protected circuit, sometimes it must even be a dedicated bathroom 20amp AFCI/GFCI.

Bob on the left coast.

 

[infinity]

Like I said, the inspector can't use the NEC to back up his call.

The NEC citation saying "No GFI shall be installed on an AFCI protected circuit" does not exist.

If it is a local law modifying the NEC, then the inspector should tell you what it is so you can look it up and read it.

I agree with AL. I'm wondering why an inspector would think this. As for a code reference.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

15A arc fault breakerin panel fed to (2) 15A receptacles then to a 15A GFI and then (2) more 15A receptacles.

Are the last 2 receptacles on line side or load side of the gfci.If on line side there is no violation,if load side it may defeet the arc fault but that is questionable.There is no code number he can cite.

 

[1968mustang]

The last two receptaclces are on the line side.

 

[Minuteman]

Okay, just curious.

Our house was built in 1982 and has a sink in the bedroom, and a toilet & shower in a small room by themselves. (Kinda like a motel) There is a recpt on one side of the sink, protected by a gfci on the other side of the sink, but the house "pre-exists" afci's.

But if this house had to be brought up to code, or, if I was to wire one that had a similar floor pan, that some inspector would balk at having a afci protection on a recept on the load side of a gfci?

This is the 1st time I have heard of that complaint.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Jim,

Are the last 2 receptacles on line side or load side of the gfci.If on line side there is no violation,if load side it may defeet the arc fault but that is questionable.

I don't see how it would defeat the AFCI. It is my opinion that most of the work done by the AFCI is done by the built in GFP and not the fancy arc signature detection system, so the GFCI is an improvement as it opens for ground faults of ~5mA while th AFCI opens for ground faults of ~30-50mA.
Don

 

[1968mustang]

I spoke with the head inspector today and he is saying no GFI on any AFCI circuit. I then asked about the proposed 2008 code of AFCI on all 15a, 20A 125 Volt circuits and he would not give me answer on that subject.

 

[plate]

Mustang, If you talk to him again, ask for a code reference.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I spoke with the head inspector today and he is saying no GFI on any AFCI circuit. I then asked about the proposed 2008 code of AFCI on all 15a, 20A 125 Volt circuits and he would not give me answer on that subject.

Ok ask him what to do about a wet bar in a bedroom.He can not cite a code number because there isnt one.Print all of this post and hand it to him.Then invite him to join.Its a shame that you have an inspector that cant cite code or know when to back down.Take this to the chief and further if necessary.Do not back down on something like this.

 

[andrew]

GFI's on AFCI final answer for me. This from a reliable source which I cannot find right now. (I hate getting old). Anyway I wll not fail anyone for that scenario.

Andrew

 

[ty]

There is no way it is a violation. It is a design issue.

Ask him his opinion on Cutler Hammer's AFCI/GFCI combo breakers.

This inspector seems to be either mis-informed or not informed of the useage.