GFI plug, distance from a shower

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eddycurrents

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I went to 210.52(D) ,page 91 of the 2002 NEC handbook, to see if the required GFI plug for a bathroom had to be a certain distance from a shower as a customer wants one installed about 2 inches from the edge of the shower stall. It says to "See 410.57(D), which prohibits installation of a receptacle inside bathtub and shower spaces." There is not a 410.57(D) in the 2002 handbook. Does anyone know the correct section they are referring to? Thanks.
 
Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

While I don't like this location, the code permits it. As long as the receptacle or switch is outside of the footprint of the tub or shower extended vertically, the installation is code compliant.
Don
 
Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

I don't like the location either....it would be easy to end up looking like this guy
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Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

There is no proximity code for dwelling bathrooms. 210.8(A)(1), ALL 125v bathroom receptacles must be GFCI.
Ryan's quote of 406.8(C) says it can't be in the tub or shower.
 
Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

"406.8(C) says it can't be in the tub or shower."
can we assume that someone put a receptacle in a shower at least once ?
 
Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

If I'm the plaintiff's attorney, I will be asking the contractor if he thinks that the use of electricity is more hazardous in mobile homes than in conventional homes?. Then I'm going to ask him about 550.13(F)(1). Then I'm going to collect my fee when the jury awards my client big bucks.
Don

corrected code section

[ February 05, 2004, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: don_resqcapt19 ]
 
Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

"If I'm the plaintiff's attorney, I will be asking the contractor if he thinks that the use of electricity is more hazardous in mobile homes than in conventional homes?. Then I'm going to ask him about 550.13(F)(1). Then I'm going to collect my fee when the jury awards my client big bucks.
Don"
His answer is easy.First its not up to him to write the NEC codes, only to follow them.If this is a house then 550 doesn't even apply.I hope you have a stronger case than that.
And he is an electrician not an engineer so he is not trained to form such duty as to deside if one is safer than the other.Apparently NEC thinks there is a differance.

[ February 05, 2004, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

Jim,
The jury will expect that the contractor would know that water and electricity is a hazard and would award to the plaintiff and the attorney will drive that point home. While you are correct that 550 does not apply, there is no difference in the hazard level in the house and mobile home bathroom. The attorney will make it clear that there is a hazard and that the electrician knew or should have known that. Actually this case wouldn't even go to trial. The contractors insurance would settle out of court.
In my opinion any contractor who does not follow the Article 550 rules for this application is on very shaky legal ground. Just look at some of the things that juries have ruled on. The Mcdonald's hot coffee case, the guys who used their lawn mower to trim hedges and lost fingers, and so on.
I would not make this installation, even though the code does not prohibit it. Just because the installation is code compliant does not always make it safe and does not protect the installer from lawsuits.
Don
 
Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

Don,while i do agree that it is a very poor location,it is something NEC seemed only concerned with in a mobile.Otherwise that article would have been in 210.Might point out that 4 wire ranges were required in mobiles before we forced them into homes.Mobiles do have at least one major difference than homes in that they have far more steel(and it is bonded to electrical system) and maybe that makes a bigger hazard.
Now if i complied with NEC and your client got shocked or killed (no longer a client )then maybe you have an issue with underwriters of NEC.
I have been forced into some of these installations in up scale homes.Had one in a $500,000 townhouse,they had a double bowl vanity and would not allow a receptacle in the mirror.One on the left wall and one on the right was only way i could meet code.The one on the right was right next to the tub.I tried out of safety concern to get it in the middle.With directing this issue to the attention of the inspector in hopes he could stop this,he too said he didn't like it but can't stop it.So just how do you feel the electrician is to blame? If NEC had applied this rule to a house then we could have forced a change.Why not sue the right person,the arc (who is more after looks than safety) is more to blame than anyone ,and maybe NEC , followed by the GC and inspector.The electrician did not have the power to change this.
Maybe Ryan will comment on what he does about this situation.
 
Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

Jim,
So just how do you feel the electrician is to blame?
Click to expand...
I'm just looking at how the legal system works. If someone gets hurt or killed because of this code compliant installation, the contractor will lose in civil court.
Don
 
Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

Don, yes he will be sued along with GC ,arc,and now days even the inspector.Bottom line is they want money and someone will take the fall.Right or wrong the lawyer wants money and if he is nice he will share it with the victim.It does seem crazy to allow a receptacle right next to the tub,while 680 is very protective around water.We cover the area 8 feet above the rim of the tub but do nothing about just outside.And in my example you see the spot the electrician is in.He can't very well say i won't do it.Unless he doesn't mind hearing the next words,YOUR FIRED.
 
Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

With all that in mind, we got tagged today because a ceiling fan pre wire was 2 ft. 9 in from tubs edge ?? Go figure
 
Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

Might have seen him let you go if the blades were 2 ft 9 ,but no way could you ever hang a fan if the box was in the tub area
 
Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

No Jim,it was a prewire that was 4 ft from tubs edge with 10 ft ceilings.
 
Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

I'm just looking at how the legal system works. If someone gets hurt or killed because of this code compliant installation, the contractor will lose in civil court.
Click to expand...
Testimony to that little disclaimer in the NEC assuming zero cupability (while exhasting persnickety applies throughout) isn't it?

yet the easy touch becomes the contractors

We can hardwire a pool or a drinking fountain without GFI protection by code can't we?

When we have a system that would actually persecute those whom abide by it we have a problem don't we?

talk about paving your own road to perdition...
 
Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

This is very interesting. People who live in trailers are protected by 30 inches of clearance between their tub and a receptacle. People who do not live in trailers are protected by common sense alone. I don't know which is worse, the implicit slight to the intelligence of trailer-dwellers, or the implicit suggestion that non-trailer-dwellers do not deserve the same protection for their safety. If there is a reason for this difference in requirements, I would like to know what it is. It there isn't, there should be a uniform requirement for both types of dwellings.

Jason Rand
 
Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

Personally i wish there was an equal code .Then we wouldn't be in this kinda jam.
And don't count on the rich being smart.I had a customer in a very upscale hood wanting a crystal chandelier over her tub.I refused.Explained to her but she didn't care she still wanted it.Not my problem if her husband does it.HMMMMM maybe he was looking to lose a wife and gain $$$$$

[ February 07, 2004, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: GFI plug, distance from a shower

Ok so we can have a receptacle at tubs edge,plug a radio in it with a 6 ft cord and place it on the tubs edge but DON`T PUT A CEILING FAN WITHIN 3 FT OF TUBS EDGE :confused:
 
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