GPS Fleet Tracking

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jimmyglen said:
I have worked at a company that does have them on the trucks

just be aware that it gives you a TON of date and a tone of data takes a lot of time to go through.

we had GPS on our nextel where I work now and we dropped it.

it just depends on how you want to spend your time - going over reports and busting your guy for taking a coffee run
No, no, no. Keepting track of coffee breaks is counter productive and downright wrong. Owners are people too and they understand that you have to have some slack during your work day. I imagine you can tweak the system to give you a course mapping of were everyone is. On the one hand it could work as a punch clock to show the start and end of work day for each worker. On the other hand it may stop moonlighting with the use of your van on weekends and evenings. If there is a lot of abuse going on, then you should see some fuel savings too, and it's not getting any cheaper per gallon either each day! e/m.
 
ITO said:
It works both ways, while you can monitor your fleet and even track mileage, you also may not want to know some things? One of my men who is a very big producer, but he only works about 6-7 hours a day including lunch and (2) fifteen minute breaks. The GPS clearly shows him at home (he lives an 1.5 hours out of town) at quitting time on most days. This guy gets more done in a (6) hour day that any 2 other men in the company gets done in a (8) day. He also gets area Forman?s wages plus some, and makes a lot more then most other foremen. So what do you do with the information that he is stealing 5-10 hours a week (make sure you read ?hours? as ?dollars?)?

This guy is stealing from you, period. He may as well take the money out of your wallet. You are paying him top dollar because he can produce. If he did it for 8 hours, fine. But he's not.

You don't agree with me, but I am speaking from a very similar experience. I just let that employee go, and things have got better in so many ways. Because I didn't trust this employee, I would check with his apprentice to see what time he left at the end of the day. I would sometimes get vague answers. Until I explained to the apprentice that if the bad apple beat me out of an hour and a half a week (I'm sure it was more) then that was $1 and hour I could be using for his raise. His eyes lit up like silver dollars, and it was clear what was going on.


As for my big producer, he could not care less whether or not he is being tracked so I tried putting a time clock on the job, so he has to punch in and out. The funny thing is, now his time cards all show 8 hours, but he is still at home (1.5 hour out of town) at quitting time. I had to do the math and just let it go, even though it bothers me because I am supposed to ?trust him, or get out of the business??right? ?. Because it feels more like bend over and take it, or just get out of the business.

Believe me, everyone else who works for you knows what he is doing, too. And either directly or indirectly it is affecting their work ethic. Maybe that is why your big producer outworks everyone else. Maybe if they could work 6 and get paid for 8 they would step it up. They just feel they can't get away with it. And yes he is screwing you.

As for the ?you have to trust your guys?, well that is just naive idealism and SPIN. People are still people, and just becuase you sign their paychecks, it does note make them trustworthy.

If you can't trust them, then they are probably taking a lot from you in one way or another. If you are making money and are happy, then so be it. But if you could trust everyone, you'd make more.
 
We have guys who will leave work at 9am on fridays and pay themselves and their crew for the day. The reason? They already got done more in 4 days then guys do in 5. Is it right to do this? Thats up to the guy signing the paychecks. The project manager will show up, no ones on site, and nothing happens. This to me says that they are okay with it.

As a new foreman, if your getting it done they will leave you alone. I have not spoken to anyone from the company in a week and a half now, my job is worth $175,000. Hows that for trust? It makes me want to put out 110%.
 
ITO said:
It works both ways, while you can monitor your fleet and even track mileage, you also may not want to know some things? One of my men who is a very big producer, but he only works about 6-7 hours a day including lunch and (2) fifteen minute breaks. The GPS clearly shows him at home (he lives an 1.5 hours out of town) at quitting time on most days. This guy gets more done in a (6) hour day that any 2 other men in the company gets done in a (8) day. He also gets area Forman?s wages plus some, and makes a lot more then most other foremen. So what do you do with the information that he is stealing 5-10 hours a week (make sure you read ?hours? as ?dollars?)?

So far the only good thing that came out of it, was I am saving about 20% (about $2,000) on my overall fuel bill. They all think I am watching, after I fired one service man who had a habit of taking 3 hour lunches at a strip bar, but I already knew he was up to something by his billing; the GPS just confirmed it and was good back up for firing him. The story got out and it kind of worked in my favor.

As for my big producer, he could not care less whether or not he is being tracked so I tried putting a time clock on the job, so he has to punch in and out. The funny thing is, now his time cards all show 8 hours, but he is still at home (1.5 hour out of town) at quitting time. I had to do the math and just let it go, even though it bothers me because I am supposed to ?trust him, or get out of the business??right? ?. Because it feels more like bend over and take it, or just get out of the business.

As for the ?you have to trust your guys?, well that is just naive idealism and SPIN. People are still people, and just becuase you sign their paychecks, it does note make them trustworthy.

Your big producer isn't going to be a bigger producer by forcing him to remain on site for the full 8 hours. He's "blitzing & blowing" BECAUSE he knows he's "earning" the early dismissal.

Sometimes this can work, other times it can negatively effect the rest of the crew. Sometimes a blitzer will demand the easier jobs that are simpler and repetitive that show massive production without a lot of thinking and tedious calculating.

Making deals with the foreman has been going on since the begining of time. When the focus changes from blindly following a set of rules and shop policies, instead of getting the job done as quickly and efficiently as possible, you've removed the functionality and power from the position of "foreman" and changed it to "timekeeper, employee monitor" and what you end up with is a bunch of compliant rule followers instead of a foreman and crew that is working productively.

When I run work, my deal as foreman is I become the defacto "owner." Since the entire responsibility of the job, bringing it in safely and properly and with minimal hassle and involvement from the shop, is MY responsibility, It is I who will decide who does what, when, where and why. I will decide who stays and who goes. Responsibility without power is nothing but an illusion. If I don't have the power to make managemt decisions, I cannot be responsible for the job. If I know a man will produce more if he's dismissed early, that's exactly what I'm going to do.

Face it - when a man is working for an hourly wage the only way to improve on that is working for a shorter time. If you expect 50 layins a day, there's no reason to NOT cut a deal where if he gives you 60 layins (done properly) he can't leave when he's done. The company isn't losing a dime.

Rewire said:
Simple answer is you fire him. One bad apple spoils the bunch, do you think the rest of your crew does not know what this clown is doing,this could be the reason for the others slacking. I worked for a shop that had one of these glory boys who could do no wrong in the owners eye because his numbers were always good he did as he pleased and everyone knew and most resented it and it showed in slower performance especially if you were on his job guys had no respect for the owner they had the attitude if Joe can do it I should be able too. It hit the fan during a slowdown of work when the owner went out to this guys job site and found almost nothing done yet over 200 hours charged against it.What he was doing was running three jobs and billing forward as he would get close to max hours on one job he would start to bill to the next it worked until he had no job to bill ahead. My rules are simple 8 hours work for 8 hours pay.

You are right to state this is a simple answer. It's too simple. Your simple rules work for a machine, not a human being. If a machine costs 20 bucks an hour, you get 8 hours work for 160 bucks. With a human, you CAN get 9 hours work in 6 hours for the same cost. You just have to know who with, and how to strike a deal that works for everyone.

Your "billing ahead" problem isn't germane to the discussion, that is a completely different issue. That can happen even is nobody is leaving early.
 
Having worked for smaller and larger companies I tend to agree that this is not necessary for the smaller companies as there is more of a tendency to weed out the bad apples and keep the good guys.

As for larger companies where the bums can get lost in the shuffle and fall through the cracks so to speak I am all for it. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about. You are an employee, if you don't like the way the company does business get a new job or start your own business and do things your way.
 
My 2 Cents

My 2 Cents

We had a foreman that would come in at 8am the job started at 6am. It didn't take long for others to join in. Soon the job ran 7:30am - 2:00pm. You got 8 hours for the day.

Picture this, you have 22 guys on a PW job $36.10/hr. You show up to the job and find about 21 of those guys just sitting shooting the crap at 8am. The other guy must of went for coffee. The owners truck pulled in, someone said "Hey is that simler"? We scattered like cockroaches. The owner never said a word. The GC sold us out. Our job foreman was off for the day.

Do any of you guys use microsoft streets and maps with GPS? I am thinking of getting it. It's $80. I passed up my exit by 17 miles. yeah I was day dreaming. I used a garmin in Miami that thing was a life saver.

I can tell you this much. My buddy was jumped because his truck was only getting 12 miles a gallon and other trucks were getting 22. I guess the shops does use those mileage charts.
 
khixxx said:
The GC sold us out. Our job foreman was off for the day.

He did not sell you out, he just wanted his work done.

Do any of you guys use microsoft streets and maps with GPS? I am thinking of getting it. It's $80.

I have it and am not that impressed with it, for one you have to have your laptop to run it in the truck. TomToms are cheap and work VERY well.

I guess the shops does use those mileage charts.

It's not just theft, when one of my trucks just needs service I don't seem to find out until it's too late, and a lot of the time poor mileage is a sign of something wrong with the truck. So yeah we watch the mileage charts.
 
Rewire said:
Simple answer is you fire him. One bad apple spoils the bunch,do you think the rest of your crew does not know what this clown is doing,this could be the reason for the others slacking.I worked for a shop that had one of these glory boys who could do no wrong in the owners eye because his numbers were always good he did as he pleased and everyone knew and most resented it and it showed in slower performance especially if you were on his job guys had no respect for the owner they had the attitude if Joe can do it I should be able too. It hit the fan during a slowdown of work when the owner went out to this guys job site and found almost nothing done yet over 200 hours charged against it.What he was doing was running three jobs and billing forward as he would get close to max hours on one job he would start to bill to the next it worked until he had no job to bill ahead.My rules are simple 8 hours work for 8 hours pay.
Be careful what you wish for. If you are currently getting 10 hours worth of work for 8 hours pay, you may end up with people on the job site 8 hours a day doing 6 hours worth of work. Some people are just that way.
 
With new men it will not be an issue as it is inplace when hired. With existing employees it could lead to a revolt, espically among the slackers.


We hit the Fast Toll records to show one employee was doing the dirty to us....
 
brian john said:
With new men it will not be an issue as it is inplace when hired. With existing employees it could lead to a revolt, espically among the slackers...

It's a lot easier than you might think the grumbling is short lived and nobody quit.

As for my other issue-

I can’t afford to lose a foreman right now, but when things slow down I wont feel obligated to carry him when there is little no work, like I will for men who have been loyal.
 
Energy-Miser said:
Someone said (in this thread a little earlier), that if you can't trust your employees then you shouldn't be in business or something to that effect. You don't agree with that sentiment? e/m.

I absolutely agree. You also may notice that the trust issue was not my primary focus in my response.

However when there is a new hire, it's like a box of chocolates, you don't know what you get until you take the first bite:D.

It takes time to develop a sense of trust and also a track recored to base that trust on. Excessive sidetrips of a new employee may save you to find out his other deficiencies the hard way.
 
brian john said:
With new men it will not be an issue as it is inplace when hired. With existing employees it could lead to a revolt, espically among the slackers.


We hit the Fast Toll records to show one employee was doing the dirty to us....
Please forgive my ignorance, but what is the Fast Toll records? e/m.
 
ITO said:
It's a lot easier than you might think the grumbling is short lived and nobody quit.

As for my other issue-

I can?t afford to lose a foreman right now, but when things slow down I wont feel obligated to carry him when there is little no work, like I will for men who have been loyal.
I think the expense and time (to analyze the data), is only jusified for larger companies. That has been my take so far in reading the posts in this thread. e/m.
 
weressl said:
I absolutely agree. You also may notice that the trust issue was not my primary focus in my response.

However when there is a new hire, it's like a box of chocolates, you don't know what you get until you take the first bite:D.

It takes time to develop a sense of trust and also a track recored to base that trust on. Excessive sidetrips of a new employee may save you to find out his other deficiencies the hard way.
It does take time to develop that, and it takes time to foster an environment in which you do end up with a crew that is loyal to you and willing to go through thick an thin with you, and that is your biggest asset and greatest investment. e/m.
 
electricmanscott said:
Having worked for smaller and larger companies I tend to agree that this is not necessary for the smaller companies as there is more of a tendency to weed out the bad apples and keep the good guys.

As for larger companies where the bums can get lost in the shuffle and fall through the cracks so to speak I am all for it. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about. You are an employee, if you don't like the way the company does business get a new job or start your own business and do things your way.
Well said. I consider a 4 truck outfit too small for GPS. As you have said, in a company of this size, it becomes clear pretty quickly that someone is not pulling their weight. e/m.
 
ptonsparky said:
Haven't put a locator on them, need it on myself. I have tried a couple that either give to much information or make it to difficult to retrieve what I want.
What is the ballpark price of these things? Installation, monthly subscription, and other hidden and not so hidden costs? e/m.
 
ITO said:
It's not just theft, when one of my trucks just needs service I don't seem to find out until it's too late, and a lot of the time poor mileage is a sign of something wrong with the truck. So yeah we watch the mileage charts.
When you say mileage chart, are you talking about a chart that is manually filled out by the electrician/driver of the truck, or is it some sort of automatic device that charts and reports the mileage, speed, etc. of the vehicle? e/m.
 
I only have 4 service trucks and I feel it's worth the cost. The reports you can generate are very helpful with job costing. Windshield time is a very important factor. It's also easy to pull up everybodys current location If someone needs something. It saves a few phone calls.

It CAN help with billing/timecard issues. I had a customer complain that I was only at the job for ten minutes and billed $150.00 for labor (even though I QUOTED it before I did the work).

I sent her the log which showed me at her place for 1.25 hours (15 minutes of which was doing an extra GFCI troubleshoot)


As far as what the employees think, it's YOUR truck.... right? They are on the clock...right? As long as you don't nitpick them for stopping for a doughnut once in a while they will be OK.


Also it is not a matter of trust it's a matter of control and statistics. Do you track material purchases or does anybody just buy whatever they want and toss the invoice in the trash?
 
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