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Jpflex

Jpflex

Electrician big leagues
Location
Victorville
Occupation
Electrician commercial and residential
Todays graphic makes it seem that any raised faceplate with non raised flat surface area for securing and metal box combination will meet code without requiring additional ground pigtal to box from receptacle.

However, if i remember correct NEC says the box and raises faceplate combination must be LISTED for bonding purpose for this to be true.

And how does a raised a faceplate make a difference in bonding vs a flat receptacle faceplate?
 

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The difference is that the 4" cover with the corner dimples are already listed for bonding as part of their UL listing. The design is such that the cover contact with the box via the two 8-32 screws is all that is required.
 
infinity said:
The difference is that the 4" cover with the corner dimples are already listed for bonding as part of their UL listing. The design is such that the cover contact with the box via the two 8-32 screws is all that is required.
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However i thought nec said both the metal box and cover you described have to be listed such as a combination set?
 
I don't know of any metal box that is listed for bonding, you have to bond the box with the EGC. Covers, and receptacles are listed for that. Actually, I think the term for the receptacles is self grounding. The cover with the flat corners has more contact area and bonds the cover and receptacle to a bonded box.
 
Either of those covers in post #6 (mud ring) and in post #7 (Mulberry style) would adequately be bonded to the 4" metal box by the two 8-32 mounting screws. As long as the receptacle for the mud ring is self grounding the device is properly bonded to the box. With the Mulberry style cover as long as the receptacle is held in place by the two manufacturer provided screws it is also properly bonded.
 
Rick 0920 said:
I'll still be doing it the old way. NEC is minimum standards! Much better method to bond the box and device with a wire-type EGC.
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Better how? Where does it end? Wouldn't it be better to use a twist lock receptacle? It's better to hardwire. Or it's better to use an external bonding jumper. I only use mineral insulated solid gold conductors because they're better.
 
Rick 0920 said:
I'll still be doing it the old way. NEC is minimum standards! Much better method to bond the box and device with a wire-type EGC.
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Why do you think that 16 in of contact area in addition to the 2 8-32 screws would not be adequate? Why is it that you see wire wrapped around a ground screw or wire not to be so much more reliable and not prone to being loose or installed incorrectly? Not picking on you or anything just genuinely curious.
 
Old school and nothing beats a copper ground wire. Too many times I have came across loose covers. Worst is when unqualified people install a 1900 cover with slots upside down. Meaning if screws come loose covers will often fall down losing flimsy to start with grounding method. Rate this fly by night quickie grounding up there with push in wire holes on devices even now only sized for #14 copper wire. Both should not be allowed.
 
electrofelon said:
Why do you think that 16 in of contact area in addition to the 2 8-32 screws would not be adequate? Why is it that you see wire wrapped around a ground screw or wire not to be so much more reliable and not prone to being loose or installed incorrectly? Not picking on you or anything just genuinely curious.
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Like to add my two cents. My first job was at a large slaughter house that had plenty of vibrating equipment and every wire nut , receptacles , switches etc were taped and everyone did a good job torquring connections without a torque driver. Have broken thin flimsy 8/32_screws on numerous 1900 & 2100 boxes due to rust or corrosion. If you ever performed work in a shop that had automatic screw machines that produced oil mist 24/7 you would insist in a ground to every device mounted on a 1900 or 2100 cover due to oil every where. I use to.like using Hubbell think.it was # 5252 spec grade duplex receptacles and insert solid or twisted stranded wire under heavy brass p!ate that used a larger the most diameter screw. Taped them and never had one come loose. On receptacle & wall switches with screens was taught to bend the wire 3/4 to 7/8 around screw and close loop up with needle nose pliers just before wire still could be rotated on screw. Then tighten & tape. Saw too.many guys only do a 180 degrees bend in device wires and it could move a little while tightening causing a loose connection down the line. When you depend on the cover screws to make a ground connection you are going from a far superior method of using a ground wire to a single connection rather then hopping that the ground path from a plated steel box to a plated steel cover and a questionable low quality probably made in cheating china 8/32 screws to provide a reliable ground path.
 
garbo said:
Old school and nothing beats a copper ground wire. Too many times I have came across loose covers. Worst is when unqualified people install a 1900 cover with slots upside down. Meaning if screws come loose covers will often fall down losing flimsy to start with grounding method. Rate this fly by night quickie grounding up there with push in wire holes on devices even now only sized for #14 copper wire. Both should not be allowed.
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The raised cover shown above does not have slotted screw holes. There is no upside down, just round screw holes. It perfectly provides the needed bonding. You can "old school" with a jumper to the receptacle all you want but it doesn't provide any better bond if you use the required screws and nuts to hold the receptacle to the cover. I would wager you have a better bond with the contact area of the cover and screws holding the receptacle to the cover than a wire hooked around a screw. With a jumper, the hook around the screw on the receptacle could be left loose as well as loose in the box. A sloppy install could be had whether "new school" or "old school"!
 
garbo said:
Like to add my two cents. My first job was at a large slaughter house that had plenty of vibrating equipment and every wire nut , receptacles , switches etc were taped and everyone did a good job torquring connections without a torque driver. Have broken thin flimsy 8/32_screws on numerous 1900 & 2100 boxes due to rust or corrosion. If you ever performed work in a shop that had automatic screw machines that produced oil mist 24/7 you would insist in a ground to every device mounted on a 1900 or 2100 cover due to oil every where. I use to.like using Hubbell think.it was # 5252 spec grade duplex receptacles and insert solid or twisted stranded wire under heavy brass p!ate that used a larger the most diameter screw. Taped them and never had one come loose. On receptacle & wall switches with screens was taught to bend the wire 3/4 to 7/8 around screw and close loop up with needle nose pliers just before wire still could be rotated on screw. Then tighten & tape. Saw too.many guys only do a 180 degrees bend in device wires and it could move a little while tightening causing a loose connection down the line. When you depend on the cover screws to make a ground connection you are going from a far superior method of using a ground wire to a single connection rather then hopping that the ground path from a plated steel box to a plated steel cover and a questionable low quality probably made in cheating china 8/32 screws to provide a reliable ground path.
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Why is a ground screw or wire nut immune to poor workmanship and/or loosening but the covers screws are not?
 
garbo said:
Old school and nothing beats a copper ground wire.
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I would say using a copper wire is "new school". The grounding and bonding obsession started before I was in the trade, I suspect somewhere in the 80's, but old school to me would be using the raceways as the EGC. I am still not clear on what brought about the worshiping of the copper wire. it is odd because I have never heard of any chronic problems whatsoever with this grounding and bonding method.
 
garbo said:
nothing beats a copper ground wire.
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Even when inspectors cite 250.122(B) forcing #10 pigtails to devices?

To reduce sub-panels, or pass energy-code certs, architects can specify lots of #10 branch wire for 20A circuits, not good for device bond screws.
 
electrofelon said:
Why is a ground screw or wire nut immune to poor workmanship and/or loosening but the covers screws are not?
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You can leave a device screw loose and not notice it. In fact, I replaced a melted receptacle not long ago where the neutral screw was never tightened. But if the face plate is hanging off, it would be hard to miss.
 
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