Grid tied backup generator

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Chamuit

Chamuit

Grumpy Old Man
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
Has any one installed a backup generator that was grid tied? I have a client asking about this but I have never seen or heard of one.

Thanks!
 
Chamuit said:
Has any one installed a backup generator that was grid tied? I have a client asking about this but I have never seen or heard of one.

Thanks!
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When you say "grid tied", do you mean that the power authority may, from time to time, ask your customer to push power into the public grid?
 
Or just that it provides distributed generation power to the local loads in parallel with the grid connection?

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gadfly56 said:
When you say "grid tied", do you mean that the power authority may, from time to time, ask your customer to push power into the public grid?
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Yeppers. One that would provide power during an outage or be able to push power back on to the grid when requested.
 
I would bet the cost of fuel used would exceed the cost returned for the electricity! Not to mention, I'd bet the poco would have some nasty things to say about this arrangement as well.
 
Chamuit said:
Has any one installed a backup generator that was grid tied? I have a client asking about this but I have never seen or heard of one.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Are you sure the client isn't just saying grid tied in leu of actually saying automatic transfer from utility power?
 
A solar system with a battery backup inverter could fit the bill. I can't think of anything else that is likely to be feasible unless it is a very large facility.
 
Every utility has very specific requirements for generation operated in parallel on their system. You would have to be a generator is significant size to make meeting their requirements financially feasible.
 
Cogen (cogeneration) applications are setup the way you are asking.

If they are grid tied, then it is only recent that they can run in islanded mode (without a utility reference). It is often easier to get utility company agreement if it were considered renewable an energy systems rather than just a generator.

https://energy.gov/energysaver/grid-connected-renewable-energy-systems
 
Chamuit said:
Yeppers. One that would provide power during an outage or be able to push power back on to the grid when requested.
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I don't know why a utility would want that; unless the generator is huge it wouldn't make a significant difference to the grid. Synchronization would be a prime consideration, of course.
 
ggunn said:
I don't know why a utility would want that; unless the generator is huge it wouldn't make a significant difference to the grid. Synchronization would be a prime consideration, of course.
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In Great Britain, the switch over to renewables is causing a lot of heartburn for the grid operator. They have recruited a lot of industrial customers with their own generators (upwards of 1 MW IIRC) to feed the grid when the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine. And they get a premium; $1,000's of dollars per MW-hr.
 
The idea here is to be able to sell back to the grid during peak demand times, when that ability becomes an option.

A single home selling back at erratic times won't be of use to any one. But, if the grid operator knows in 5-15 minutes he is going to need X MW's of peak production for 2 minutes and they can turn on all the gensets in a particular area aggregate their poroduction and accomodate that short peak demand.

The cost of gas v. the cost of electricity is not of concern at this job at this point in time.

The only setups I have ever seen are homes with a typical ATS and Data Centers with UPS support in place for the transition. Nothing synchronized with the grid.
 
Chamuit said:
The idea here is to be able to sell back to the grid during peak demand times, when that ability becomes an option.

A single home selling back at erratic times won't be of use to any one. But, if the grid operator knows in 5-15 minutes he is going to need X MW's of peak production for 2 minutes and they can turn on all the gensets in a particular area aggregate their poroduction and accomodate that short peak demand.

The cost of gas v. the cost of electricity is not of concern at this job at this point in time.

The only setups I have ever seen are homes with a typical ATS and Data Centers with UPS support in place for the transition. Nothing synchronized with the grid.
Click to expand...

What is your customers capacity?
 
Chamuit said:
The idea here is to be able to sell back to the grid during peak demand times, when that ability becomes an option.

A single home selling back at erratic times won't be of use to any one. But, if the grid operator knows in 5-15 minutes he is going to need X MW's of peak production for 2 minutes and they can turn on all the gensets in a particular area aggregate their poroduction and accomodate that short peak demand.

The cost of gas v. the cost of electricity is not of concern at this job at this point in time.

The only setups I have ever seen are homes with a typical ATS and Data Centers with UPS support in place for the transition. Nothing synchronized with the grid.
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You'll have to check your state regulations. To my knowledge most of them don't allow net metering for non-renewable sources.
 
Chamuit said:
This little experiement would be... sanctioned.



He has an 11kW generator, 1P 120/240V.
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At that size, I seriously doubt any BPU will entertain a grid tie to push power into the grid, not the least because I doubt your standard 11 KW Generac comes with any provision for syncing with the grid, and such an option if available would likely be many times the cost of the generator itself. Also, I'm sure the manufacturer would walk/run away from having anything to do with this lash-up.
 
gadfly56 said:
At that size, I seriously doubt any BPU will entertain a grid tie to push power into the grid, not the least because I doubt your standard 11 KW Generac comes with any provision for syncing with the grid, and such an option if available would likely be many times the cost of the generator itself. Also, I'm sure the manufacturer would walk/run away from having anything to do with this lash-up.
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Rectify the generator output to DC and feed a grid tie inverter? Not sure how to handle the MPPT input though.

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