indman
Member
- Location
- Pennsylvania
- Occupation
- Electrician
Hey there! Long time listener, first time caller.
Check the TLDR at the bottom if you would like to skip the backstory.
It began last winter, when I got to wire my boss's house. The rough in went seemingly fine, and before we knew it drywall was up!
We installed 4" and 6" Lithonia/Juno WF6 and WF4 wafer lights throughout the house. Siemens brand panels and disconnects. The service is set up as follows:
Service Drop > 320A Meter Base > Shed with 200A Panel and 200A Disconnect
200A Disconnect > Pipe to Main House > 200A Generac ATS > 200A Main Lug Panel
200A Main Lug Panel has (2) Subpanels and only (1) spare space.
Ground Rods at meter.
I did not design this service, and I was less than enthusiastic about installing it. I suggested an alternative to this, since the 200A panel in the shed area could easily be a 60A or less subpanel. I digress..
Temp power was fine, no major issues were noted other than the usual miss on cutting out several of my electrical boxes.
I started doing my trim out behind the painter and putting in the final circuit breakers (AFCI, GFCI, etc...)
Everything was seemingly fine until I installed the dual function AFCI/GFCI breaker for the bathroom light circuit. As soon as this was done, the problems were either detected, or began. The circuit would trip seemingly randomly. There was some correlation with the use of a DeWalt 60V Compound Saw that was plugged into another circuit, but not always. I worked on troubleshooting this as soon as I was able. I bounced around between this job and other jobs frequently, so I wasn't able to troubleshoot this problem continuously. One note, as well, was that the time between trips could be days. There were times I would try a fix, and the circuit would stay on the entire time I was there. This caused the troubleshooting to drag out as well.
I began by checking the wafer lights and making sure none of the wires were pinched or nicked during cut-in. I use the Klein romex strippers, so this is usually not an issue.
I then looked in all of the switch boxes, and made sure there was not any shared neutrals, nicked wires, etc. I did find some damaged wires from cut-out saws, and replaced them, but the problem continued.
I tried to remove parts of the circuit to see if it would not trip, and narrowed it down to the master bathroom area that would consistently trip it. Then I started to test each individual wire in the bathroom, checking for continuity and resistance. I didn't find any continuity or resistance between grounds, hots, or neutrals with all wires open.
If this weren't frustrating enough, during my trials I had to keep working on other parts of the house, and after I installed a dual-function breaker for the basement area, it began tripping randomly as well! They would not always trip at the same time. It was usually one or the other.
The dual-function Siemens breakers are also not very explicit with what the trip was for. Two lights on the trip meant either an Arc fault to ground or a ground fault. To figure out which one it was, we replaced the breakers with AFCI only, and put a GFCI outlet inline with the bathroom lights and on the basement lights we did the same.
The good news is that the AFCI breakers have not tripped once since we did this, but the GFCI outlets, which are brand new, will still trip. For a while, with the circuits and GFCI outlets separate like this, I was able to get only the basement lights to trip, not the master bath lights.
I bypassed the basement light GFI to see what would happen, and the master bath GFI now trips randomly.
We also called the local POCO and asked them to make sure all their connections were fine. They sent someone and we talked a bit. Their side checked out and he suggested it could be the old well pump.
My supervisor seems to have less of an idea than me, so I'm trying to figure out what is going on. We don't have much for testing equipment because we are a multi-trade company that doesn't do any "service" work... even though we kind of do sometimes.
Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated, and I'm happy to answer any questions that the above did not clarify. Thanks for your time.
TLDR
Very random tripping of GFI outlet inline on circuits with lights and receptacles. Have tried many things. Welcome to any fresh ideas.
Check the TLDR at the bottom if you would like to skip the backstory.
It began last winter, when I got to wire my boss's house. The rough in went seemingly fine, and before we knew it drywall was up!
We installed 4" and 6" Lithonia/Juno WF6 and WF4 wafer lights throughout the house. Siemens brand panels and disconnects. The service is set up as follows:
Service Drop > 320A Meter Base > Shed with 200A Panel and 200A Disconnect
200A Disconnect > Pipe to Main House > 200A Generac ATS > 200A Main Lug Panel
200A Main Lug Panel has (2) Subpanels and only (1) spare space.
Ground Rods at meter.
I did not design this service, and I was less than enthusiastic about installing it. I suggested an alternative to this, since the 200A panel in the shed area could easily be a 60A or less subpanel. I digress..
Temp power was fine, no major issues were noted other than the usual miss on cutting out several of my electrical boxes.
I started doing my trim out behind the painter and putting in the final circuit breakers (AFCI, GFCI, etc...)
Everything was seemingly fine until I installed the dual function AFCI/GFCI breaker for the bathroom light circuit. As soon as this was done, the problems were either detected, or began. The circuit would trip seemingly randomly. There was some correlation with the use of a DeWalt 60V Compound Saw that was plugged into another circuit, but not always. I worked on troubleshooting this as soon as I was able. I bounced around between this job and other jobs frequently, so I wasn't able to troubleshoot this problem continuously. One note, as well, was that the time between trips could be days. There were times I would try a fix, and the circuit would stay on the entire time I was there. This caused the troubleshooting to drag out as well.
I began by checking the wafer lights and making sure none of the wires were pinched or nicked during cut-in. I use the Klein romex strippers, so this is usually not an issue.
I then looked in all of the switch boxes, and made sure there was not any shared neutrals, nicked wires, etc. I did find some damaged wires from cut-out saws, and replaced them, but the problem continued.
I tried to remove parts of the circuit to see if it would not trip, and narrowed it down to the master bathroom area that would consistently trip it. Then I started to test each individual wire in the bathroom, checking for continuity and resistance. I didn't find any continuity or resistance between grounds, hots, or neutrals with all wires open.
If this weren't frustrating enough, during my trials I had to keep working on other parts of the house, and after I installed a dual-function breaker for the basement area, it began tripping randomly as well! They would not always trip at the same time. It was usually one or the other.
The dual-function Siemens breakers are also not very explicit with what the trip was for. Two lights on the trip meant either an Arc fault to ground or a ground fault. To figure out which one it was, we replaced the breakers with AFCI only, and put a GFCI outlet inline with the bathroom lights and on the basement lights we did the same.
The good news is that the AFCI breakers have not tripped once since we did this, but the GFCI outlets, which are brand new, will still trip. For a while, with the circuits and GFCI outlets separate like this, I was able to get only the basement lights to trip, not the master bath lights.
I bypassed the basement light GFI to see what would happen, and the master bath GFI now trips randomly.
We also called the local POCO and asked them to make sure all their connections were fine. They sent someone and we talked a bit. Their side checked out and he suggested it could be the old well pump.
My supervisor seems to have less of an idea than me, so I'm trying to figure out what is going on. We don't have much for testing equipment because we are a multi-trade company that doesn't do any "service" work... even though we kind of do sometimes.
Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated, and I'm happy to answer any questions that the above did not clarify. Thanks for your time.
TLDR
Very random tripping of GFI outlet inline on circuits with lights and receptacles. Have tried many things. Welcome to any fresh ideas.
