Ground in Meter Base

[awc]

First off let me say I'm a newbie here and I'm going to try hard to not ask what may seem like a stupid question but I need some clarification because another guy I work with is driving me crazy on this. In the meter base we are to have a GEC running from a lug in the can to the grounding electrode. Now here comes the question....is there suppose to be yet another conductor running from the lug in the can to the bonded ground bar in the Main Panel? We have been arguing on it today and I came home tonight and I just have to know for sure so I can prove my point to him, he thinks he knows everything after doing this for 6 months.

 

[roger]

Now here comes the question....is there suppose to be yet another conductor running from the lug in the can to the bonded ground bar in the Main Panel?

No, there is not "supposed" to be another conductor running from the meter can to the main panel, you're allowed to install one but, it will simply be a parallel neutral and a waste of material and effort.

It is not required.

Roger

 

[awc]

Roger, Thank you. That is what I was arguing but he seem to think otherwise. Thank you!

 

[roger]

You're welcome, below is a picture that applies.

Show him the illustration and point out that there is no EGC from the "Main Panel" to the meter nor is there one from the meter to the transformer, the neutral carries the fault current on the line side of the main.

Roger

 

[tom baker]

The grounding electrode conductor can be attached at any point from the weatherhead to the meter. Its most commonly done in the service enclosure in my area.

 

[BackInTheHabit]

Similar comments on THIS THREAD

 

[awc]

Thanks to all for your answers. I did show Roger's illustration to the guy I work with and after a discussion over lunch that later involved a journeyman who was sitting close by everyone is now on the same page. The thread link was very helpful as well.Thanks again. This site has already been extremely helpful to me after just a few days.:smile:

 

[augie47]

Thanks to all for your answers. I did show Roger's illustration to the guy I work with and after a discussion over lunch that later involved a journeyman who was sitting close by everyone is now on the same page. The thread link was very helpful as well.Thanks again. This site has already been extremely helpful to me after just a few days.:smile:

welcome to the Forum.
I think you will find the site to continue to be very helpful as it still is for us who have been in the trade for decades.
Keep in mind, although you may find Code references and illustrations, you will also find OPINIONS, so don;t take everything here as gospel.
Enjoy your stay and keep posting.

 

[Minuteman]

welcome to the Forum.
Keep in mind, although you may find Code references and illustrations, you will also find OPINIONS, so don;t take everything here as gospel.
Enjoy your stay and keep posting.

A little friendly sarcasm is often tossed in, just to keep it interesting.

 

[charlie]

A little friendly sarcasm is often tossed in, just to keep it interesting.

Really, I hadn't noticed.

 

[ultramegabob]

First off let me say I'm a newbie here and I'm going to try hard to not ask what may seem like a stupid question but I need some clarification because another guy I work with is driving me crazy on this. In the meter base we are to have a GEC running from a lug in the can to the grounding electrode. Now here comes the question....is there suppose to be yet another conductor running from the lug in the can to the bonded ground bar in the Main Panel? We have been arguing on it today and I came home tonight and I just have to know for sure so I can prove my point to him, he thinks he knows everything after doing this for 6 months.

I have worked in areas where they use the ground terminal in the meterbase to bond to a bonding bushing on the nipple that goes into the building, then on the other end of the nipple is another bonding bushing that is then bonded to the ground buss in the panel.... over time, as you are in the business, you will find there are many interpetations and methods of doing things in differnt areas, where I live we run the ground wire into the main disconnect, one town over they ground the meter base, I dont try to argue which is better, I just do what is required where Im working....

 

[K8MHZ]

First off let me say I'm a newbie here and I'm going to try hard to not ask what may seem like a stupid question but I need some clarification because another guy I work with is driving me crazy on this. In the meter base we are to have a GEC running from a lug in the can to the grounding electrode. Now here comes the question....is there suppose to be yet another conductor running from the lug in the can to the bonded ground bar in the Main Panel? We have been arguing on it today and I came home tonight and I just have to know for sure so I can prove my point to him, he thinks he knows everything after doing this for 6 months.

According to our inspectors the 'bullseye' (the point at which the grounding conductors and the neutral conductors are bonded) MUST be in the same enclosure as the first disconnect, only. In our area, that point is not allowed to be in the meter socket.

I have been in areas where the above is not true, and the 'bulleyes' were allowed to be in the meter socket. The first scenario is by far the most common.

I believe that sections 250.28 and 250.30(2)(a) make the connection in the meter socket a violation.

 

[ultramegabob]

According to our inspectors the 'bullseye' (the point at which the grounding conductors and the neutral conductors are bonded) MUST be in the same enclosure as the first disconnect, only. In our area, that point is not allowed to be in the meter socket.

I have been in areas where the above is not true, and the 'bulleyes' were allowed to be in the meter socket. The first scenario is by far the most common.

I believe that sections 250.28 and 250.30(2)(a) make the connection in the meter socket a violation.

I was in a meeting one time that the local inspectors invited all the local electricians and the REMC to go to, there was a very heated debate on grounding in the Panel/main disconnect vs. Meter base, the utility company insisted on the meter base, the inspectors argued all kinds of reasons why it had to be in the main disconnect, what was really funny was when the electrical inspector kinda puffed his chest and stated that he was the local authority, and what he said was LAW! and the guy from REMC said, that may be so, but I dont have to hook my wires into your equipment if I dont like how its hooked up..... REMC won that battle....

In my opinion, it doesnt make much differnce in a typical residence whether its grounded here or there, its all bonded together.

 

[roger]

I was in a meeting one time that the local inspectors invited all the local electricians and the REMC to go to, there was a very heated debate on grounding in the Panel/main disconnect vs. Meter base, the utility company insisted on the meter base, the inspectors argued all kinds of reasons why it had to be in the main disconnect, what was really funny was when the electrical inspector kinda puffed his chest and stated that he was the local authority, and what he said was LAW! and the guy from REMC said, that may be so, but I dont have to hook my wires into your equipment if I dont like how its hooked up..... REMC won that battle....

In my opinion, it doesnt make much differnce in a typical residence whether its grounded here or there, its all bonded together.

Well, all I can say is, it doesn't sound as though your local inspectors understand the purpose of the GE and the GEC.

Why would they want to route a high voltage surge or lightning strike into the building?

They should have listened to the POCO

Roger

 

[ultramegabob]

personally if it were up to me, I would ground in the meter base, if for nothing else to save a couple feet of #4 bare copper ( I know alot of you guys use #6 but we are required #4 in my area)

 

[stickboy1375]

I wish I could use the meter base as well, I just dont get it...:-? (Poco requirement by the way)

 

[nyerinfl]

I wish I could use the meter base as well, I just dont get it...:-? (Poco requirement by the way)

Couldn't the reason be the fact that technically the meter base is not accessible? I would think the reason to bond in the main disco is so you can get to it if need be w/o POCO involvement. JMO.

ex. a gardener cuts the GEC to the first rod. To repair it properly it would need to be replaced with a continous wire.

 

[roger]

Couldn't the reason be the fact that technically the meter base is not accessible? I would think the reason to bond in the main disco is so you can get to it if need be w/o POCO involvement. JMO.

That argument always comes up when this is discussed but it doesn't hold water, if that was the case, the other connections are not accessible either and, then there is the definition of "Accessible (as applied to wiring methods)".

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of being removed or exposed without damaging the building structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure or finish of the building.

Roger

 

[stickboy1375]

Couldn't the reason be the fact that technically the meter base is not accessible? I would think the reason to bond in the main disco is so you can get to it if need be w/o POCO involvement. JMO.

ex. a gardener cuts the GEC to the first rod. To repair it properly it would need to be replaced with a continous wire.

With that reasoning I cant lock my basement either.... :roll:

 

[nyerinfl]

That argument always comes up when this is discussed but it doesn't hold water, if that was the case, the other connections are not accessible either and, then there is the definition of "Accessible (as applied to wiring methods)".



Roger

I've seen the idea floated here before, I think it holds a valid point to a degree. I also see your point of the others not being accessible, but the argument is the only thing that even kind of makes sense to me for bonding after the meter.

Stick, wouldn't bother me if your basement was locked year round, unless I needed to work in your meter to fix your GEC.