ground or neutral

[Wes Smith]

At a house that I am finishing on, the owner has a welder, that the male plug is a 3 wire 50 amp 125/250 volt. The panel that will feed the receptacle for it is a 4 wire system. My question is, should I connect to the neutral OR the ground bar at the panel (I have not seen the welder at this time) ? Thanks in advance.

Unless I'm missing something, it would be straight 250 volt (2 hots and a ground). This would be the cord end and receptacle:
www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=931&section=41808&minisite=10251

 

[kwired]

Unless I'm missing something, it would be straight 250 volt (2 hots and a ground). This would be the cord end and receptacle:
www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ProductDetail.jsp?partnumber=931&section=41808&minisite=10251

That is exactly what it should be.

Then there is the reality that there are many that are not that one and have been that way for years and probably was an acceptable practice to use the 10-50.

 

[iwire]

I never understand how something can be perfectly safe, and then with the stroke of a pen, people start yelling that "you're going to kill somebody"

Because it may not have been 'perfectly safe' before. It may have been simply safe enough at the time.

As time moves forward our perception of what is safe and what is not changes, and it should.

 

[iwire]

The real risk is the possibility of an open neutral on the line side of the subpanel and having line or near line voltage on the case of the welder as measured to ground. This is one of the reasons the code does not permit new dryer circuits to be 3 wire circuits.

Thank you for posting what was on my mind.

 

[iwire]

Unless it is a subpanel, there is no increase in risk for wiring the outlet correctly even if the customer will use the neutral as a ground. The conductor is serving the same task, but at least if it's insulated, it can do both jobs.

You are not thinking it through.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

You are not thinking it through.

Yes I was. If you have a floating neutral upstream from the panel, it's going to take the ground with it. If it's a main panel with a bond, both conductors are going to be pulled to whatever voltage the floating neutral gets pulled to.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Yes I was. If you have a floating neutral upstream from the panel, it's going to take the ground with it. If it's a main panel with a bond, both conductors are going to be pulled to whatever voltage the floating neutral gets pulled to.

That would be true for an open neutral on the line side of the main bonding jumper, but I thought we were talking about a subpanel? (your comment in post #13)

 

[kwired]

If you have a floating neutral on the service does it really matter if the conductor in question is a neutral or equipment ground? Either one is going to be raised the same level (or close enough for what really matters) in reference to ground when this happens.