ground problem for 5 'rule

Status
Not open for further replies.
W

wire monk

Member
We have a 400 amp service that the meter is out in the yard away from the people's home. With 2- 200 amp disconnects below the meter socket. SER is running too 2 different panels underground in to the home very large home getting to the water mainto ground is impossible is there any suggestions how to do this to code and get the equipment grounded to the main water service.. Is it ok to go from the main water line in the house to the SER in the 2 panel inside the home. All finished basement with concrete and drywall.
 
B

Ben Franklin

Banned
Location
Philadelphia, PA
It appears you may have some issues.

Thy service is a separate structure thus no need to ground to said home water pipe. Grounding electrodes present at the service structure needeth be used to ground thy service.

Thou not permitt'd to run multiple feeders to said home. Only one feeder permitt'd to supply home. The panelboard at the home must then be grounded to present electrodes such as thy water pipes.

I trust you find this talk helpul.

 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I have a few questions the first is do you have 2 ground rods driven at the home? Are the panels grouped ?

As far as the GEC to the water pipe it must be connected within 5' of where it enters the house but I don't belive it would be a violation to connect to the water line before it enters the house.

Yes the GEC must go to the panels in the house. I believe each panel should be connected to both the water pipes and the ground rod.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Ben Franklin said:
It appears you may have some issues.

Thou not permitt'd to run multiple feeders to said home. Only one feeder permitt'd to supply home. The panelboard at the home must then be grounded to present electrodes such as thy water pipes.
Click to expand...

Good point- I missed that one.
 
raider1

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
wire monk said:
We have a 400 amp service that the meter is out in the yard away from the people's home. With 2- 200 amp disconnects below the meter socket. SER is running too 2 different panels underground in to the home very large home getting to the water mainto ground is impossible is there any suggestions how to do this to code and get the equipment grounded to the main water service.. Is it ok to go from the main water line in the house to the SER in the 2 panel inside the home. All finished basement with concrete and drywall.
Click to expand...

As pointed out earlier, you are not permitted to feed this house with 2 feeders. (See 225.30)

Chris
 
M

msmasterelec

Member
Sorry to rain on the party Mr. Franklin but 225.30 need not apply here because there are not multiple buildings on the property. Not to mention even if it did he could still be covered under 225.30(B)(2) because this structure could be considered to be large enough to deem two supplies necessary. This is a very common practice in many larger residential homes where the homeowner requires an inner electrical/mechanical room. I have seen up to 6 individual feeders (all CU conductors) run under the slab and out to the pad mounted transformer--all protected by a single disconnect sufficient for the load. If you want to get down to it, this is much safer than having a meterbase on the side of your home, at least there is a central switching point for all parties involved(Utility company, Fire Dept, Etc.) that can simply be switched on and off. This is of course permitting your provider will CT a residential dwelling.

**As for the ground rods, in my experience as long as you are not anymore than 500 feet from the ground rod at your service, I would drive a new ground rod at the panels and bond them in this manner (it may be ugly if you didn't plan ahead, and any distance further than that could cause an impedance problem with your grounding system). I have never been a fan of the cold water pipe ground...sorry for those of you that love it. If you had used true Type SE cable you would have a bare ground along with 3 conductors in your cable. Good luck!
 
M

msmasterelec

Member
Addition

Addition

Sorry forgot to mention the meat of my refute, if you will read the Art. 100 Definition of feeder, what are man has here is actually 1 single feeder feeding this residence, Art. 100 says that a feeder is "All circuit conductors..." it does not state that they have to be in 1 cable or one conduit. What we have here is one (1) feeder to the residence. Not to mention again about 225.30 is refering to incoming supplies in more than one location on the same structure...which would be a code violation. Sorry that I omited this portion of my refute earlier.
 
raider1

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
but 225.30 need not apply here because there are not multiple buildings on the property.
Click to expand...

A remote meter and panel or disconnects mounted away from the dwelling would in fact be a separate structure as defined in Article 100. So 225.30 would apply because the meter/panel/disconnect would be one structure and the home would be another.

if you will read the Art. 100 Definition of feeder, what are man has here is actually 1 single feeder feeding this residence, Art. 100 says that a feeder is "All circuit conductors..." it does not state that they have to be in 1 cable or one conduit.
Click to expand...

If we have 2, 200 amp breakers feeding 2 panelboards then we have 2 feeders not one feeder.

Chris
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top