Ground Rod at Detached Structure

[ritelec]

the best part is the inspector having to talk to a guy wearing a tinfoil hat requesting
an electrical inspection on a building he can't see.....

and realizing that this is what he went to college for four years to be qualified to do.

that's when he'll snap.

Must not be much of an inspector if he does not come to the sight with the proper tools.........:thumbsup:


http://theghosthunterstore.com/

 

[Fulthrotl]

Must not be much of an inspector if he does not come to the sight with the proper tools.........:thumbsup:


http://theghosthunterstore.com/

where do you *find* this stuff? you are getting way over near the edge of
the internet, and i didn't even know the internet had an edge.....

"We are not really sure if unexplainable EMFs are a by product of a ghost
getting ready to manifest or having already left the area. Another theory
related to Electromagnetic fields is that spirits may be attracted to naturally
occurring EM fields. This is the concept behind EMF Pumps. This is a man
made EM Field that you are controlling so you can give the spirit an extra
dose of EMFs to try bring it closer or make them more active. This method
has been used successfully by many groups for years. The new owners of
Entity Electronics have improved upon the ordinal design along with keeping
it affordable for the average researcher."

so.... will driving two ground rods keep the house from being possessed?
trying to stay within sight of the original topic....... we may have gone too
far already... from "ground rod at detached structure" to "grounding
detached entities" with a brief swerve into cloaking devices...

 

[renosteinke]

Don, thank you for your injection of common sense. Such a response was sorely needed when one of the Mods was making the assertion not so long ago.

As for the color of the GEC, not that the code reserves green for the EGC alone (250.119). As that Mod took pains to explain, an EGC is an EGC, a GEC is a GEC, and never the twain shall meet. Our collegue Joe Tedesco also enjoyed posting pictures of green GEC's in his 'violations' columns.

Granted, in many ways it seems like we're debating how many angels can dance on a pinhead. After all, you have a pretty solid interconnection - #6 GEC to main panel, a #6 or better EGC with the feeder to the garage panel, and a #6 GEC to the garage rod(s). The wire can't tell whether it's carrying static or fault current- and I question whether an additional wire would improve things in the least.

 

[George Stolz]

Don, thank you for your injection of common sense. Such a response was sorely needed when one of the Mods was making the assertion not so long ago.

I assume your comment is directed at me, so I'll respond. From my seat, common sense dictates that I will have less headaches at inspection if I keep my installation free of oddities when the common installation is equally effective. I will stray from the norm as I deem necessary, but I will expect a conversation about it later. Apparently, inspectors in Reno are so highly trained that you do not encounter questions when you stray from the norm, I can assure you that is not universal across the country.

As far as the rest of it goes, all I see are straw men.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I assume your comment is directed at me, so I'll respond. From my seat, common sense dictates that I will have less headaches at inspection if I keep my installation free of oddities when the common installation is equally effective. I will stray from the norm as I deem necessary, but I will expect a conversation about it later. Apparently, inspectors in Reno are so highly trained that you do not encounter questions when you stray from the norm, I can assure you that is not universal across the country.

As far as the rest of it goes, all I see are straw men.

George,
I don't understand. I think what I described is both the norm and what it required by the rules.

 

[George Stolz]

George,
I don't understand. I think what I described is both the norm and what it required by the rules.

I agree with everything you have written.

Perhaps I have misunderstood John's post. It was veiled in enough ambiguity that I may have misinterpreted what he was trying to say, and who to.

 

[renosteinke]

Sorry for the confusion, George.

I was thanking Don for his opinion.

The "mod" I think I was referring to was Iwire, whom I believe insisted in the last thread on this topic that the GEC had to be run, separate, between the ground rods of the house and the detached structure, and that the EGC was not allowed to be landed at the panel in the detached building. Were you to do so - if I am recalling his argument correctly- you would be using the GEC of the feeder to connect the ground rods, as a EGC, and the code doesn't allow that.

I would like to see a retraction regarding the aspersions cast on Reno inspectors .... and, for that matter, and inference that anything I have done is "odd." Others in this very thread have asserted that their practice is identical to what I 'thought' was proper.

Another problem with the slander of Reno inspectors is the assumption that I am drawing upon Reno practice only. There is no basis for that assumption.

Let's clarify things a bit ... it does get confusing when countless variations are added to the mix. Let me describe one arrangement- you guys tell me what's right and what's wrong with it.

Situation: House with completely detached garage. No common roof, etc.

Main panel at house. EGC from main panel to house ground rod.
Feeder (2 hots, neutral, ground) from main panel to garage panel.
Neutral and grounds isolated at garage panel.
EGC from garage panel to ground rod at garage.

Now ... what's your take on that arrangement?

 

[Fulthrotl]

Main panel at house. EGC from main panel to house ground rod.
Feeder (2 hots, neutral, ground) from main panel to garage panel.
Neutral and grounds isolated at garage panel.
EGC from garage panel to ground rod at garage.

Now ... what's your take on that arrangement?

i'm not going to address anything with code compliance, there are
folks here who can do that in their sleep.

the equipment grounding conductor is tying two separate grounds
together.

to my way of thinking, a service needs to be grounded to a SINGLE
reference point, to prevent differences of potential on the ground.
a floating ground, if you will.

that "single reference point" might be a ground grid made up of
10,000 feet of 500 mcm buried 2' in the rocks in a switch rack,
but for a service, not something in a POCO's backyard, a single
point of reference ground potential is desirable.

my experience with this was two ground rods driven in the floor
of an electronics test lab, a dozen feet apart, and a bare #6
running between them, along the back edge of a phenolic test
bench, for clipping equipment to, to eliminate ground loops.

i was 19 at the time, so i got to drive the ground rods. then
we bolted a #6 to one of them, ran it along the tabletop,
and went to bolt it to the other ground rod.

nothing hooked to the ground, not touching anything metal.
it drew a small spark. we measured the voltage between the
#6 and the unconnected ground rod... about 30 volts, fluctuating.
we got a simpson analog meter and checked again, figuring
transients being picked up by the lab grade VOM.
simpson wiggles between 20~30 VAC.

connected the wire to the second ground rod. nothing hooked
to that wire but those two rods, in the ground, 12' apart.

15~20 amps were flowing thru that #6, measured with an
analog clamp on. digital clamp on's didn't exist back then.

we never did find out why. disconnected the other ground rod
and checked the other way, same results.

that's why i'm a big fan of single point ground references,
unless the fault current available is so great that you need
a ground grid, like a switch rack.

one of things they taught in LADWP's safety class, if you had
a fault going to ground in a switchrack, don't stand with your
feet apart on the ground at the same time. you don't want
your job description to be "ground loop".

i figured if 230kv went to ground within 200 yards of me, the
chances of both of my feet touching the ground at the same
time until i was outta there wasn't real great.

 

[crelectric]

ground rods residential

ground rods residential

here in southern california if you installed a 200 amp meter panel your electrode condutor size is #4 to the ground rod and if you installed a 200 amp sub-panel to a seperated structure you can then run #6 equiptment ground conductor with your 200 amp feeders to the sub-panel but then when installing your second ground rod at the seperated structure sub-panel you would still need to run a #4 electrode conducture to the sub-panel ground bus bar from the ground rod

 

[kwired]

here in southern california if you installed a 200 amp meter panel your electrode condutor size is #4 to the ground rod and if you installed a 200 amp sub-panel to a seperated structure you can then run #6 equiptment ground conductor with your 200 amp feeders to the sub-panel but then when installing your second ground rod at the seperated structure sub-panel you would still need to run a #4 electrode conducture to the sub-panel ground bus bar from the ground rod

Any idea on the reason why they decided to make that requirement?