Ground Rod - Spacing

[tom baker]

In our history of electric tesla said all power must return to the earth ground ive always thought about that statement.

As long as you remember that in a line to case fault, the electrons want to go back to there source which is the transformer, not earth (for systems 600 volts and under), even if there are ground rods

 

[ohmhead]

As long as you remember that in a line to case fault, the electrons want to go back to there source which is the transformer, not earth (for systems 600 volts and under), even if there are ground rods

Well yes we see your point .
Have you ever heard of MANDENOS CLOTHESLINE ? just thinking a little bit
he got the idea from tesla and its used today . take care

 

[George Stolz]

Well yes we see your point .
Have you ever heard of MANDENOS CLOTHESLINE ?

No, I hadn't. A quick google search explained that it was a Single Wire Earth Return (SWER) system, which I have heard of.

just thinking a little bit

As long as you think long enough to realize a typical ground rod would not allow enough amps to flow to trip a 15A circuit breaker at 120V, then we get along just fine.

 

[ohmhead]

No, I hadn't. A quick google search explained that it was a Single Wire Earth Return (SWER) system, which I have heard of.


As long as you think long enough to realize a typical ground rod would not allow enough amps to flow to trip a 15A circuit breaker at 120V, then we get along just fine.

Well we understand a fault to ground and it will go back to the opposite polarity of a circuit which completes the path on that secondary winding . were just suggesting that there is other ways to send or use power meaning one line transmission.

I kinda get along fine with your input we like to talk about electrical related issues and give our thoughts .

We never suggested that a residential 120 volt circuit in a home would be a good component for this circuit .

Have you ever seen 10 amps flowing on a ground rod thats current returned thur the earth to that transformer because it has no other way to return no neutral connection .And it will trip a breaker wher just looking at earth as a path like mandenos theory in a different way to use power take care best to ya

 

[iwire]

Have you ever seen 10 amps flowing on a ground rod thats current returned thur the earth to that transformer because it has no other way to return no neutral connection

Saying current travels "thur the earth" is correct but is much different then saying current travels to the earth.

.And it will trip a breaker wher just looking at earth as a path like

What will trip a breaker and under what circumstances?

 

[roger]

What will trip a breaker and under what circumstances?

I am currious to this answer as well.

Roger

 

[ohmhead]

I am currious to this answer as well.

Roger

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_transmission_line. Well we did not mean or suggest a 120 volt circuit in a home or resident we were looking at the circuit in the picture as shown that fuse will blow on overload .
When current flow is from secondary winding transformer one line to primary winding on transformer two thur fuse & winding down to ground rod returned back thur earth to the number one transformer .

Current flow from trans to trans thur earth itself . Yes it has to come from a source we know that earth alone is not enough.
But now can we use earth in other ways meaning can one capture a source of potential kinda use maybe a transformer in series with the two transformers in that picture meaning install a transformer primary to ground rod near transformer one then connect opposite side of primary of this transformer with ground rod to transformer two as current passes thur this circuit would this not give us a voltage in primary maybe at a reduced energy power rate but energize that primary ? as current flow resistance wise in earth would be higher than that primary resistance of winding ? Current would pass in winding with less resistance just a thought what do you think ?

Fuse or breaker it will trip ? yes or no ? Take care

 

[George Stolz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_transmission_line. Well we did not mean or suggest a 120 volt circuit in a home or resident we were looking at the circuit in the picture as shown that fuse will blow on overload .

First, I have no doubt Roger is familiar with the SWER system, as he was the one who first introduced it to me.

Second, what picture?

Third, a ground rod connected to a 120V 15A breaker will probably not trip the breaker. Do the math, assuming a very good 25 ohm connection to earth.

As for the rest of your comment, I can't really understand what you are describing, so I won't comment on that. Take a breath every now and then, punctuate.

 

[ohmhead]

First, I have no doubt Roger is familiar with the SWER system, as he was the one who first introduced it to me.

Second, what picture?

Third, a ground rod connected to a 120V 15A breaker will probably not trip the breaker. Do the math, assuming a very good 25 ohm connection to earth.

As for the rest of your comment, I can't really understand what you are describing, so I won't comment on that. Take a breath every now and then, punctuate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_wire_earth_return
this picture

 

[ohmhead]

Well we were just pondering a theory not telling you it would work.

If one installed a primary winding in theory under ground between the two rods of the pole mounted transformers in picture .

A series connection with two rods one on each primary winding connection by example a imaginary underground transformer .

Would these ground rods provide a path of least resistance between the rods that are now passing current into the other transformers now existing on the power poles above ground .

Meaning current would take the path of least resistance and flow into this underground transformer primary winding and achieve a earth to rod connection?

Now think grand scale if it worked per say what if you just did this any place underground could one get power from a coil placed underground between different ground potentials or by placement of rods ? take care iam always thinking stuff ! does this help understand what i was trying to say ?

 

[George Stolz]

Yes, I get it now.

No, it wouldn't work.

To demonstrate, walk out to the street with your DMM, and stab the two probes in the dirt and measure the voltage in that 24" span of dirt. The reading is the available voltage to be "stolen".

Bear in mind, there are unbalanced neutral currents from all kinds of different systems under your feet right now. Electricity seeks any path back to it's source, which includes the grounding electrodes not intended as a circuit path, as the SWER system does intend.

The current between your two transformers is running in millions of different paths through the soil, not just the one of least resistance.

 

[ohmhead]

Well so what were saying is that the two transformers in the picture can pass current to one another in the earths soil as shown in the picture .

And even a lower resistance between it current would bypass and flow though the earths soil not a copper wire or coil ? Kinda makes ya wonder how it works ? Take care best to ya

 

[George Stolz]

Well so what were saying is that the two transformers in the picture can pass current to one another in the earths soil as shown in the picture .

Agreed.

And even a lower resistance between it current would bypass and flow though the earths soil not a copper wire or coil ? Kinda makes ya wonder how it works ? Take care best to ya

I don't believe the coil would be a lower resistance than the infinite earth paths around the coil. It's not that earth is that shabby of a conductor; it's our ability to effectively connect to it that stinks, without a lot of effort on our end.

 

[ohmhead]

Earth as a conductor or infinite resistance which ?

Earth as a conductor or infinite resistance which ?

Well George in futher reading Mendenos Clothesline Theory was limited to single phase power and had voltage problems.

In some cases it was unsafe as far as stray voltages found passing thur other objects near meaning structures and so it was only good for a rural service meaning out of town not your local town or city power .

We see it only functioning at a high voltage the earth at a lower voltage it would limit the energy by resistance not enough potential to be effective in the soil to pass that current to give the energy needed .

The loss in voltage between rods passing thur earth was a problem it worked but also was not efficient in use.
Lots of odd voltage changes down stream !!

Were always interested in other ways of doing electrical this was kinda different it still amazes me how people years ago came up with some really good ones .

And with all the information we have today whats going to be next ?

Take care be safe