ground rods needed at sub panel ?

[Stevenfyeager]

A customer has installed a 200 amp meter - disconnect combo at a utility pole and then trenched to a barn with a 200 amp sub panel. They installed ground rods at the pedestal but not at the barn. Not sure of the distance, will look this week. 2 rods are needed at both locations, correct ?
At a different job I did for a mobile home customer, the inspector only required 2 rods at the disconnect pedestal but not at the m home. But the underground distance was only 5'. So, is it a distance factor ? Thanks

 

[JesseETG]

Article 250.24 (A) requires you to ground your service and says where to do so in (A) (1). Article 250.32(A) requires you to have a grounding electrode system if the building is supplied by a feeder. Which in this case it is supplied with a 200 amp feed. I would say yes. FYI Equipment grounding conductor is required from main meter disconnect to subpanel regardless of grounding electrode system at the separate building.

 

[Stevenfyeager]

Article 250.24 (A) requires you to ground your service and says where to do so in (A) (1). Article 250.32(A) requires you to have a grounding electrode system if the building is supplied by a feeder. Which in this case it is supplied with a 200 amp feed. I would say yes. FYI Equipment grounding conductor is required from main meter disconnect to subpanel regardless of grounding electrode system at the separate building.

Thank you, I figured it would be needed. (And I hope they trenched in a 4 wire feeder) Oddly, I remember 20 years ago when all electricians around here just ran a 3 wire URD to detached buildings and drove a ground rod and every inspector passed it. On a past post, I had asked when the change came. But its been a while, I don't recall what the consensus was.

 

[Buck Parrish]

Thank you, I figured it would be needed. (And I hope they trenched in a 4 wire feeder) Oddly, I remember 20 years ago when all electricians around here just ran a 3 wire URD to detached buildings and drove a ground rod and every inspector passed it. On a past post, I had asked when the change came. But its been a while, I don't recall what the consensus was.

It's been about 20 years maybe 22 since the change. Back then you still had to drive one ground rod. Then all the neutrals and grounds tied together just like a service.
It's still being done like that in many parts of the country, like Indiana, for example. Some of the HD and Lowes sale more urd #2 three wire then they do 4 wire.
I had a guy wanting me to wire a pool. He had pulled in #2AL three wire. I had him pull it out and install 4 wires #3 cu. He hooked his tractor up, pulled it out of the 100 ft long inch and a half black plastic water line. I didn't even want to see how he connected the two pipes. It's crazy in rural Indy.

 

[infinity]

Thank you, I figured it would be needed. (And I hope they trenched in a 4 wire feeder) Oddly, I remember 20 years ago when all electricians around here just ran a 3 wire URD to detached buildings and drove a ground rod and every inspector passed it. On a past post, I had asked when the change came. But its been a while, I don't recall what the consensus was.

The change to a required 4-wire feeder for a separate structure entered the NEC in 2008.

 

[tom baker]

Mobile homes are a chapter 5 application, the rules in chapter 5 modify the rules in chapter 1-4. Yes it’s a feeder, but no ground rods at the my panel. Mobile homes have long required a 4 wire feeder

 

[tom baker]

The change to a required 4-wire feeder for a separate structure entered the NEC in 2008.

I recall it started with the 2002 NEC, saying 3 wire feeder ok as long as no parallel paths, then the 2008 nec said no more 3 wire feeders. Many of us were taught a seperate bldg is wired like a service

 

[Buck Parrish]

I recall it started with the 2002 NEC, saying 3 wire feeder ok as long as no parallel paths, then the 2008 nec said no more 3 wire feeders. Many of us were taught a seperate bldg is wired like a service

02 Makes sense, I thought it was 99 But I'm just guessing.

Every time I see your name, I think of the Pugent sound. I used to live on Alki Beach and could see what I thought was Bremerton way off in the distance.

 

[Stevenfyeager]

Thank you all.

 

[Stevenfyeager]

Another question: they ran a 3 wire 4/0,4/0,2/0 direct burial but ran a 4 th ground wire (# 6 copper) separate in a 1/2” conduit in the trench. Why ? I don’t know but is that acceptable ?? Thanks

 

[ActionDave]

That's a weird thing to do. Was it because the EGC was not direct bury rated?

300.3(B) says all conductors of the same circuit shall be contained in the same raceway or trench. Is it a continuous raceway or just a sleeve?

 

[Stevenfyeager]

That's a weird thing to do. Was it because the EGC was not direct bury rated?

300.3(B) says all conductors of the same circuit shall be contained in the same raceway or trench. Is it a continuous raceway or just a sleeve?

he told me the #6 is in conduit by itself all the way through the trench.

 

[qcroanoke]

he told me the #6 is in conduit by itself all the way through the trench.

Is it metal or pvc?

 

[Stevenfyeager]

Is it metal or pvc?

pvc

 

[ActionDave]

he told me the #6 is in conduit by itself all the way through the trench.

Are you doing any of the work? Where I'm from a customer is someone who pays you to install his wire, sub panel, disconnect, etc; it's not someone who tells you what someone else did.

 

[Stevenfyeager]

Thanks. They had been a customer a year ago, when we did some elec work for them in their house. They called me recently saying they installed wires and trenched from the utility pole to their new barn. Asked me to come and finish the job. Up until last year, residents could do their own elec work as long as they bought a permit and had it inspected. That was true for the past 20 years for all cities in the southern IN and KY areas, even in Louisville. But now they found out the new ruling. Licensed electricians only.

 

[roger]

Up until last year, residents could do their own elec work as long as they bought a permit and had it inspected. That was true for the past 20 years for all cities in the southern IN and KY areas, even in Louisville. But now they found out the new ruling. Licensed electricians only.

Where can we see this new law? If it's formal it has to be public. I can not believe they can stop a homeowner from working on their own residence with a few exceptions.

 

[Tulsa Electrician]

I would also review 300.5 Underground Installations (I)
Conductors of the same circuit.

 

[Stevenfyeager]

That's a weird thing to do. Was it because the EGC was not direct bury rated?

300.3(B) says all conductors of the same circuit shall be contained in the same raceway or trench. Is it a continuous raceway or just a sleeve?

Thank you, I see that. What about 300.5 (I, the section after section H) Exception No. 1 ? Does this allow what they have done ? Direct burial conductor shall be...in close proximity in the trench...including EGCs. ?

 

[ActionDave]

That is why I asked if the conduit was a complete raceway or just a sleeve. Being in the same trench but also in an individual conduit is not something that I would have ever imagined having to consider. Electrically it may work fine but it's such a weird installation that I wouldn't trust any of other work done by someone who would do such a thing.