Ground Rods

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paul

paul

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Snohomish, WA
I'm doing a project for our Little League. We have 6 new scoreboards and they are held up with two 8x8x1/2" I-beams that are concreted in 8' deep. I'm looking at the wiring instructions and they want me to put a ground rod at each scoreboard for warranty purposes. I'm thinking that if I have two I-beams 8' deep a ground rod is pretty much worthless.

Any thoughts other than manufacturers instructions say so?? Push comes to shove, I guess I'll install the rods, but I can't see the point of it.
 
I don't see what good it will do, but I would put it in to keep me in the clear in case of an accident.
 
Maybe the same reason they ground the handle and mechanism of a overhead line manual disconnect switch on the streets. Any guess? Anyody?

davidv
es
 
Sounds like your 8' of I beam in concrete will do a much better job than a ground rod but since it's part of the instructions, which a probably part of the listing, I would pound them in anyway. It could be that they want the ground rods for installations that may not have concrete encased steel. But unless the instructions say they you can eliminate them with your type of installation IMO you have to install them even if they're basically useless.
 
I would contact the manufacturer and explain to them the installation and ask them to explain to you what the ground rod is expected to do? Perhaps the instruction writer's assumed the board would be "floating" or isolated from earth by its mounting means. They may not realize in some cases the board would be mounted to what could basically be considered grounding electrodes.
 
I agree with Bryan. It would be pretty interesting to hear the response, and maybe you may even teach them something. At worst you may still drive the worthless ground rods.

I know some may say that if lightning hits, that the concrete will crack or blow up.... I say hogwash ;)
 
I would drive the ground rods anyway, even if they verbally say otherwise. You wouldn't have documentation of a conversation over the phone. :)
 
Keep in the mind the 2005 NEC now has clear language when structural metal can be considered a grounding electrode, in your case, ten feet encased in concrete or in contact with the earth.
If you make your I-beams a ten feet in the soil then in effect they are a ground rod
 
I agree that the additional ground rods will serve no purpose, however as long as the instructions require that you install an EGC with the circuit conductors and NOT rely on the ground rods as a fault return path, then the ground rods will not cause any problems. The easiest thing would probably be to install them; there is little chance that you are going to convince an "engineer" with the manufacturer that he does not understand grounding.
 
I've got my response via email and now I'm being told that copper clad ground rods are necessary and he is going to call me tomorrow to explain why.

This should be interesting.
 
If the manufacture is requiring the ground rod to be driven then drive the rod/rods but under Art.250.50 & or Art,250.104 & or Art,250.106 every thing that is metal will need to be bonded together.
 
Talked to him today. He says that by driving the ground rods, it will increase the lifespan of the electronics inside, which according to him will degenerate over time during electrical storms without a ground rod. Specs say to drive a ground rod to achieve 10 ohms or less to ground. I explained that there is nowhere in the state of WA where you will achieve a ground resistance of 10 ohms or less. But because of the five year warranty and the replacement cost if something should go wrong, I will drive the silly ground rods.
 
paul said:
Talked to him today. He says that by driving the ground rods, it will increase the lifespan of the electronics inside, which according to him will degenerate over time during electrical storms without a ground rod. Specs say to drive a ground rod to achieve 10 ohms or less to ground. I explained that there is nowhere in the state of WA where you will achieve a ground resistance of 10 ohms or less. But because of the five year warranty and the replacement cost if something should go wrong, I will drive the silly ground rods.
Click to expand...

He buys good weed.No since in what he said but if warrany void then drive his rods.
 
Paul, dont feel degraded by driving the rods, They are not "silly".
Just think of it as primary electrode and the whole structure as auxiliary electrode. Its like what spaceboys call as redundant systems. Youre aiding in the protection of property so drive with pride.
 
davidv said:
Paul, dont feel degraded by driving the rods, They are not "silly".
Just think of it as primary electrode and the whole structure as auxiliary electrode. Its like what spaceboys call as redundant systems. Youre aiding in the protection of property so drive with pride.
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What does a ground rod do to aid in the protection of the property?

Really can anyone provide proof that a ground rod does much other than keep us strong from driving them in?
 
iwire said:
davidv said:
Paul, dont feel degraded by driving the rods, They are not "silly".
Just think of it as primary electrode and the whole structure as auxiliary electrode. Its like what spaceboys call as redundant systems. Youre aiding in the protection of property so drive with pride.
Click to expand...

What does a ground rod do to aid in the protection of the property?

Really can anyone provide proof that a ground rod does much other than keep us strong from driving them in?
Click to expand...

Up untill a few years ago i thought they did something.At best they help with a lightning strike and they will keep a potential between earth and neutral under control.They do not clear faults.
 
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