Ground: The Earth

[mbrooke]

Why is Mike getting made fun of in this thread for clarifying the term ground? He is correct, ground means earth and a picture of the planet is needed to clarify a term which has grown to have 100 different meanings many of which are fallacious. Being honest that thread kind of gets me the wrong way "Imagine the dumbest electrician you've worked with and remember this book had to pander to him, too." Many of the smartest electricians and most experined engineers need to learn the definition of ground because typically they have it wrong. I notice people who are truly gifted, smart and advanced in any area are thought dumb or crazy when truth is presented to that unwashed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/electricians/comments/lc20b8

 

[LarryFine]

"Imagine the dumbest electrician you've worked with and remember this book had to pander to him, too."

That statement reminds me of how little electrical theory many of the "mechanics" I worked under and with knew.

 

[mbrooke]

That statement reminds me of how little electrical theory many of the "mechanics" I worked under and with knew.

Yup, same here.

 

[romex jockey]

'earthing' is a better term for grounding imho.

consider, one can be grounded, but not 'earthed' .....

~RJ~

 

[K8MHZ]

What about the the metal part of a vehicle that has a generator on it? What is that called now?

 

[mbrooke]

'earthing' is a better term for grounding imho.

consider, one can be grounded, but not 'earthed' .....

~RJ~

Right, for the GECs. Circuit protective conductor is a better term for EGCs IMO.

 

[Joe.B]

What about the the metal part of a vehicle that has a generator on it? What is that called now?

Bonding?

 

[K8MHZ]

Bonding?

That would make sense, but I don't think that is the case. Do RV's with generators no longer have EGC's or GFCI's?

 

[LarryFine]

consider, one can be grounded, but not 'earthed' .....

Therein lies the debate. To me, they're the same thing, electrically speaking.

Multiple parts can be bonded without being grounded; that requires electrodes.

 

[LarryFine]

What about the the metal part of a vehicle that has a generator on it? What is that called now?

The chassis. Mobile and motor homes have been dealing with metal frames for decades.

 

[mbrooke]

Ok, so why do we consider equipment "grounded" when it has an effective ground fault current path?

 

[K8MHZ]

The chassis. Mobile and motor homes have been dealing with metal frames for decades.

So they changed the name of the 'third wire' to the chassis conductor? And GFCI's to Chassis Fault Circuit Interrupters?

Edit to add: I have been working on such vehicles for decades. Most of the time when they were being driven down the road they had no electrical connection to the earth.

 

[K8MHZ]

Ok, so why do we consider equipment "grounded" when it has an effective ground fault current path?

Why does the earth have to be there for the fault path to be effective?

 

[LarryFine]

Ok, so why do we consider equipment "grounded" when it has an effective ground fault current path?

Because "we've always done it that way."

Is this discussion about what's technically correct or the words we're in the habit of using?

 

[mbrooke]

Why does the earth have to be there for the fault path to be effective?

Right. The earth does nothing in opening a breaker.

 

[mbrooke]

Because "we've always done it that way."

Is this discussion about what's technically correct or the words we're in the habit of using?

The words of habit are not not technically correct

 

[LarryFine]

So they changed the name of the 'third wire' to the chassis conductor? And GFCI's to Chassis Fault Circuit Interrupters?

The first one is what we usually call the EGC because it is traditionally earthed. Again, what is this discussion about?

The second one usually involves the earth, but we weren't asked for our opinions when the devices were invented.

Edit to add: I have been working on such vehicles for decades. Most of the time when they were being driven down the road they had no electrical connection to the earth.

We have used the term ground to refer to a metal frame or chassis since before any of us were around.[/QUOTE]

 

[LarryFine]

Why does the earth have to be there for the fault path to be effective?

We all agree it doesn't, don't we?

 

[K8MHZ]

The first one is what we usually call the EGC because it is traditionally earthed. Again, what is this discussion about?

The second one usually involves the earth, but we weren't asked for our opinions when the devices were invented.


We have used the term ground to refer to a metal frame or chassis since before any of us were around.

But the premise of this thread is that ground and earth are synonymous by virtue of the NEC definition. They are used interchangeably, but are not the same thing. We all know that. To say explicitly that ground = earth and that's that, has not been fully integrated into the NEC.

 

[StarCat]

This website was linked to on this forum in the past:

Electrical Shock from Motor Body Causes, Safety, Prevention

Why touching motor body feeling an electrical shock, how to connect the motor metallic body to the ground, shock from motor body, causes, prevention

www.etechnog.com

Earth Fault Causes, Effects, Example, Explanation

Earth Fault Causes, Line to Earth Fault, Effects of Earth Fault, Earth Fault Protection, Earth Fault Examples, How to measure and identify earth fault

www.etechnog.com

Main Difference Between Earthing and Grounding

Here, you will Learn the Main Difference Between Earthing and Grounding, Earthing VS Grounding, Need of Earthing, Need of Grounding

www.etechnog.com

Earthing Advantages Purpose, Necessity in Electrical System

Electrical Earthing advantages, main purpose of earthing, why earthing is necessary, Equipment Earthing, System Earthing, electric shock prevention

www.etechnog.com

This is " Supposed " to be an ? Engineering Forum?
Possibly located in India.
Apparently they do not have the same understanding as in the USA and NEC.