Ground the meter or ground the panel?

[inspector_guy]

I inspected a home here in Shreveport earlier this week and I have a few questions that maybe y'all more experienced folks could help answer. This home was built in 1970 and had the GEC (8 awg al)from the panel to the supply side (before the meter)on the water heater. This GEC was bonded to the panel before moving on to the WH. On the service lateral and the meter. There was no GEC from the meter, but I could see a hole drilled in the battom of the meter box (big enough to accomodate a 6 awg wire) and directly below the meter was a ground rod sticking about 18 inches out of the sidewalk which had been poured around it. The rusty old clamp was attached to the rod. There were a list of other electrical concerns so I recommended to the nomeowner that they contact a reputable elecetrical contractor to make the appropriate repairs. My biggest question is this, one elctrician I spoke with told me if the meter were grounded it would also serve to ground the panel, since the two were connected by a metal conduit. I thanked him for his time to discuss the issue (an look at my digital photos) and told him that I would prefer to see both grounded. On a side note, at the same house the disconnect switch for the AC comp. was about 12 inches from the earth. It was just recently installed. What the #@%* was this person thinking? As always I appreciate everyones comments.
Takk, Joe B.

 

[cripple]

Re: Ground the meter or ground the panel?

Originally posted by inspector_guy:
I inspected a home here in Shreveport earlier this week and I have a few questions that maybe y'all more experienced folks could help answer. This home was built in 1970 and had the GEC (8 awg al)from the panel to the supply side (before the meter)on the water heater. This GEC was bonded to the panel before moving on to the WH. On the service lateral and the meter. There was no GEC from the meter, but I could see a hole drilled in the battom of the meter box (big enough to accomodate a 6 awg wire) and directly below the meter was a ground rod sticking about 18 inches out of the sidewalk which had been poured around it. The rusty old clamp was attached to the rod. There were a list of other electrical concerns so I recommended to the nomeowner that they contact a reputable elecetrical contractor to make the appropriate repairs. My biggest question is this, one elctrician I spoke with told me if the meter were grounded it would also serve to ground the panel, since the two were connected by a metal conduit. I thanked him for his time to discuss the issue (an look at my digital photos) and told him that I would prefer to see both grounded. On a side note, at the same house the disconnect switch for the AC comp. was about 12 inches from the earth. It was just recently installed. What the #@%* was this person thinking? As always I appreciate everyones comments.
Takk, Joe B.

250.24(A)(1) States that the connection shall be made at any accessible point from the load end of the service drop or service lateral to and including the terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is connected at the service disconnecting means.

Since most serving utility place a seal on the meter enclosure, and if the seal is broken or remove without they're approval they could take some like of action. The key word is accessible to the inspector enforcing the Code.

The bonding screw between the neutral buss and enclosure does the grounding of meter enclosure.

 

[tom baker]

Re: Ground the meter or ground the panel?

The grounding electrode conductor can terminate anywhere between the load end of the service drop connection to and including the grounded metal enclosure of the service disconnecting means (250.24(A))Some agencies won't allow the connection in the meter can as it is not accessbile.
There is no minimum height for a AC disconnecting means in the NEC.

 

[jjj]

Re: Ground the meter or ground the panel?

So let me see if I understand this correctly. I have a pvc pipe going into the the main house panel from the meter socket enclosure. Do I run my #6 ground wire in this conduit from the panel inside the house, bond it the the meter enclosure itself, and then run the ground wire out of the meter enclosure down to my ground rods??????????

 

[roger]

Re: Ground the meter or ground the panel?

Forget the part about bonding the GEC to the meter can and you are fine.

Bonding the #6 as you describe is a parallel conductor to the entrance "grounded conductor".

The service supplied neutral (MGN) and associated neutral bar in the meter can (factory bonded, or factory supplied bonding means) would take care of EGC issues at the meter.

In the areas of the South East that I have spent my career in, we have always been allowed to make the GEC connection in the meter. (keeps this function outside and is accessible contrary to misinterpretation)

Roger

[ September 03, 2003, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[bennie]

Re: Ground the meter or ground the panel?

I agree with Roger. Some meter bases have meter gaps. Thes gaps are set to flashover at 4 to 6 KV.

The ground electrode connection must be in the meter base. Some utility companies install the base and do the grounding.

 

[pierre]

Re: Ground the meter or ground the panel?

If there is anything that I have learned from this and other forums, it is how diverse the different utility companies are in this great country of ours.
At this point my advice to explain this type of connection is, call both the inspector and the utility company for their requirements (methods) and you should be good to go.

Pierre

 

[charlie]

Re: Ground the meter or ground the panel?

Time makes a difference also.
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">At one time, we permitted the GEC to terminate in the meter fitting.</font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">we then prohibited it altogether.</font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We then permitted an insulated GEC to pass through but not connect to the meter fitting.</font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We now permit a GEC to terminate in but not pass through the meter fitting</font>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

 

[pierre]

Re: Ground the meter or ground the panel?

Charlie
What happens to all of the installations that occurred during the other 'times'?

Pierre

 

[charlie]

Re: Ground the meter or ground the panel?

Originally posted by Pierre:
What happens to all of the installations that occurred during the other 'times'?

Just like the Code, they are grandfathered.

 

[iceman2610]

Re: Ground the meter or ground the panel?

Originally posted by roger:
[QB] Forget the part about bonding the GEC to the meter can and you are fine.

Bonding the #6 as you describe is a parallel conductor to the entrance "grounded conductor".


Roger, This would only create a parallel path to the grounded conductor if the panel inside were bonded. If the inside panel was not bonded, there would be no code violation. The panel would require that the neutrals and grounds be seperated as if it were a sub-panel.

 

[roger]

Re: Ground the meter or ground the panel?

Iceman, go back and read JJJ's post closely and note the word "Main".

Now with that out of the picture, why would you run this GEC to this panel if you bonded it at the meter?

Roger