ground wires

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originally a nother electrician went in and changed out the guts, called the inspector, he approved it, the electrician then gave a bid to the building owner, it took him 2 hours for that one panel so i am sure the bid was high. My company bid obviously lower and got the job, the inspector made it very clear that he wanted it done exactly as the first panel, which I have been doing, but now that i am 125 panels into the job he suddenly wants me to do the grounds.
 
250.122 (C) "Where a single EGC is run with multiple circuits in the same RACEWAY or cable, it shall be sized for the largest overcurrent device protecting conductors in the RACEWAY."
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SO if what you say is true, and you are saying that the panel is a raceway, wouldn't this single pitail have to be sized to the largest CB in the panel? If the riser panels have up to a 60 Amp CB, the pigtail would be a No. 10 cu, and not all that big.
Is this something viable here? Or is there a reason that panels come with enough (well, almost enough) single screw terminals in a ground bar? Heck the manufacturers could just put a single lug in there rated for No.s 14 through 8 in a 100 A panel, and provide a wirenut sized to fit all those combined single grounds...................Would this be code compliant? Even in a 200A panel, according to table 250.122, all you need is a single No. 6cu to tie in as many as the wire nut you choose is rated to handle? How about a split bolt? But to be honest, I would add the smallest add-on ground bar with the fewest extra terminals, and move just the ones or twos you need to relocate. It would take about the same labor to do so.
 
Wish we had guys down here that work that fast.Best advice at this point is just give in.He already has saved you tons of hours.He should have told you in beginning if he had issues with the bar.Personally i would take 2 or 3 # 12's and pig tail them and land under 1 screw.Of all the violations here in this install the ground bar is not a major to me and i would pass that part as is.Did you perhaps mess up a kick back that he had going with the other company ?
 
How about putting as many in the bar as fit and satisfy this inspector, then bolt the rest to the can with ordinary gnd screws? The bar is really just a convenience, not a necessity for obtaining a valid ground.
 
I guess I don't see a problem with installing new guts in an existing box. The "guts" you are installing is the important part and the "box" is just something to put it in.

I just did an industrial where we replaced the guts of an old panel where you couldn't get parts. The old box was just fine. It was the same size as a new box. It was recessed in a concrete block wall and replacing the box was impractical!

So long as you have proper "fill" what's the problem?

As for the ground bar, tell the inspector "no problem, thank you very much for oking replacing the guts in the old box.
 
ferrarotomvfjr said:
That was what i said!! we just voided any ul listing on both the fpe and the ge load center, but he is making me go back and change them out for literally two screws per panel with two grounds on it, i brought up the fact that there isn't even a ground present other than the pipe, wich brakes at 8 different panels on the way up, but he said that was exceptable.
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if his problem is multiple wires under one screw maybe he would just let you add another ground bar so you just have to jump the two ground bars together and move a few wires.
 
Isn't the can just a can, and any listing issues apply to the actual panelboard? Isn't it common in commercial to mix and match cans and panelboards? Are panelboards specifically listed to be installed in certain model number cans?

Another section to have in your back pocket is 312.8, which allows splices in enclosures provided you follow the rules.

I am curious about his reasoning about not allowing a simple wire-nut fix, but as others have said, it's a little scary to stir the pot when you're so precariously positioned.
 
If I understand correctly, you are removing a 10-circuit panel and installing a 12-circuit in the same "can". Is the wire bending space adequate? Was this "special permission" given in writing? Remember any special permission must be given in writing per the definition in Article 100. I doubt seriously that the inspector would put this permission in writing, so guess who is going to be held liable in the event that something happens? The problem would not even need to be related to the gut change. This would just be used as an example that the work was not done per the NEC. It sounds like this job is a nightmare from beginning to end. Good luck with it, but it sounds to me like the ground bar is the very least of your problems.
 
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