memyselfandI
Senior Member
- Location
- Hampton Roads, Virginia
Is it a requirement that a grounded (neutral) conductor be pulled with a set of feeder to a sub panel if no equipment connected to that panel has a need for a neutral?
Is it a requirement that a grounded (neutral) conductor be pulled with a set of feeder to a sub panel if no equipment connected to that panel has a need for a neutral?
There is no such general rule in the NEC.
Kind of odd when they make us pull a neutral to every switch location..........just in case........
How often do you pull neutrals to motors and transformers?Kind of odd when they make us pull a neutral to every switch location..........just in case........
Not very often.How often do you pull neutrals to motors and transformers?
It is only lighting loads using a neutral, that have the requirement for access to the neutral at the switch location.
Definitely not at every switch location. I would think typically just the outdoor lights, which might get timers.How often does someone install an electronic lighting control device in a dwelling?
Definitely not at every switch location. I would think typically just the outdoor lights, which might get timers.
Kind of odd when they make us pull a neutral to every switch location..........just in case........
Definitely not at every switch location. I would think typically just the outdoor lights, which might get timers.
Thats for a completely different reason. the use of occupancy sensors with no neutral causes a small amount of current on the ground system, to get the 120V from the hot. the violates the NEC requirement on objectionable current
You asked how many residential locations might have electronic devices installed at them, not how many switch locations needed to comply with the 'access to a neutral' requirement.Then I'm kinda confused. 404.2(C) says switches controlling lighting loads. To me, that means 99% of switches in dwellings.
I'm pretty sure the NEC will eventually require a neutral at switch locations.
You asked how many residential locations might have electronic devices installed at them, not how many switch locations needed to comply with the 'access to a neutral' requirement.
My point is 99% of residential switch locations "might" have electronic devices installed at them. So to me, that means 99% of residential switch locations require a grounded conductor to satisfy 404.2(C). Getting back to the OP's question, it seems inconsistant to not require a grounded conductor in a panel regardless of the initial load intentions when somewhere down the road, the need for a grounded conductor "might" be required.
My point is 99% of residential switch locations "might" have electronic devices installed at them. So to me, that means 99% of residential switch locations require a grounded conductor to satisfy 404.2(C). Getting back to the OP's question, it seems inconsistant to not require a grounded conductor in a panel regardless of the initial load intentions when somewhere down the road, the need for a grounded conductor "might" be required.
The design of many electronic switches do exactly that. The UL standard permited each swich to draw up to 0.5mA via the EGC. The rule in the NEC was put there because UL said they would not change the standard unless the code required a grounded conductor at the switch locations. I am not sure if UL has changed the standard yet.Are you referencing someone using the EGC as a neutral when no neutral is present?
It would be wise to have a spare but not a requirement. Suppose you have a 480V panel sized for 3 or so motors. Why would the NEC require a neutral. There are many situations like that. If someone wants a neutral they need to go to the panel that has one. I have run a sub panel for a heating & A/c unit-- no need for a neutral so why require that. There are other panels with neutrals in the home.
Ahhhhh .... Yes, that is absolutely true.Ice, according to the 2011 NEC, it already does.
Reflecting on my post, I'm pretty sure it was meant to be anecdotal history.About 6 years ago, ...