Grounding all metal parts

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goldstar said:
I think you missed the joke:slaphead:
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spock-illogical.jpg




:D
 
jumper said:
You lost me.:?

I am referring to a screw that is commonly used to bond an enclosure to the grounded conductor at the first disconnect.
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It was a joke. In the picture the bare copper is wrapped around the head of the nail that attaches the plastic box to the stud.
 
mike_kilroy said:
But local inspector can insist. I failed my 1978 electric inspection 1st time thru by NOT using green colored ground screws. Had to go back and replace about 100 thru out house....
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Sorry you had to do that. Your inspector was wrong. The ground screw packs we pick up at the supplier are colored green by the manufacturer in the same manner that nonmetallic sheathed 12 gauge is colored yellow. . . the manufacturer does it voluntarily.

In addition to not being colored green, the 10/32 screw used to bond to metal electrical boxes and enclosures is not even required to be listed by a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory. The specific language in the NEC is in 250.8(A)(5) and 250.8(A)(6).

Get the full catalog of the manufacturer of your favorite 10/32 ground screw, and look up that ground screw. You will not find it shown as listed. It is simply a machine screw, or a thread forming machine screw. . . nothing more.
 
mike_kilroy said:
But local inspector can insist. I failed my 1978 electric inspection 1st time thru by NOT using green colored ground screws. Had to go back and replace about 100 thru out house....


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iwire said:
Not legally or with any authority unless there is a local amendment.
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:thumbsup:.

Outside of any local amendment, that inspector was either nuts or lacked common sense- As if the screws purpose/identity wasn't already blindingly obvious, with the bare or green wire terminated under it.:p
 
al hildenbrand said:
I've never seen it done that way, either.

Apprenticed in '68 under the '65 NEC and we ignored the metal boxes, but landed on the device screw. By '71, was also bonding to the metal enclosure (different jurisdiction, more rigorous.)
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If I can find a pic or see it again I'll post a pic..

Seen it often here.. Actually I had to replace a sub panel in a garden apartment unit a couple years back. All the grounds where taken back out of the panel and lugged to the exterior. Looked to be common practice.. professionally done, not Roobed.
 
OK. As luck would have it I was doing a remodel job in the same town this week and found this. Looks like this was done by the same person as the OP (I'm not going to call him an electrician). Would THIS have been a code compliant installation way back when ? Notice the screw the ground wire is terminated on. No, it's not green. No, it's not identified for its intended use. AND, the tip of the screw is barely holding the side of the box on. The red wire ? Well, I guess whoever did this didn't want to take up space inside the box. At least he put a wire nut on it.

I'm on a roll. Wonder how many more of these gesius installations I'll find before I go on vacation.:?

 
ritelec said:
If I can find a pic or see it again I'll post a pic.
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I'd like to see that.

I've seen back-wraps, and cut-offs, but never a deliberate staking on the outside of the box.

You know, that transition for two-wire ungrounded receptacles to grounding-type had to have been as hard to "figure all the NEC language based loop holes out" as today's transition into the AFCI era has been.
 
goldstar said:


OK. As luck would have it I was doing a remodel job in the same town this week and found this. Looks like this was done by the same person as the OP (I'm not going to call him an electrician).
. . .
I'm on a roll. Wonder how many more of these genius installations I'll find before I go on vacation.:?
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Wow!! This made my morning. Thanks. :cool:
goldstar said:
Would THIS have been a code compliant installation way back when ?
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There are SO many levels to your wonderful question. . . The two additional ground clips visible (I wonder what they are being used for), and the fact that the clips are on backwards (is a bare EGC under them on the outside?)

The unbushed K.O. has always been an issue.

The loose sidewall of the wall case. . . priceless!

Even the most generous box volume calc doesn't work to be within the box's NEC Table specified 12.5 cubes.
goldstar said:
Notice the screw the ground wire is terminated on. No, it's not green. No, it's not identified for its intended use.
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2014 NEC 250.8(A)(5) & (6), as you know, doesn't even require that the machine-type ground screw be "identified" (let alone listed, or green.)
goldstar said:
AND, the tip of the screw is barely holding the side of the box on.
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I guess one could argue that the screw, now holding the EGC, is not doing anything else. . . :p
goldstar said:
The red wire ? Well, I guess whoever did this didn't want to take up space inside the box. At least he put a wire nut on it.
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I love the gray tape added to the ends of the cable sheath. . . very period. My Master used to buy cases of it.
 
al hildenbrand said:
The two additional ground clips visible (I wonder what they are being used for), and the fact that the clips are on backwards (is a bare EGC under them on the outside?)
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FYI, there was a 3-wire feeding the receptacle (red was unused as shown and this was a switched receptacle w/ a light on the load side as well). The EGC from the 3-wire was terminated to the screw on the outside of the metal box. One of the EGC clips had a ground wire for the out-going wire that went to a light outlet that was no longer in use and buried above the sheetrocked ceiling. The other EGC clip had a ground wire that went to the receptacle. Seems like an awful lot of work to do the wrong thing IMHO.
 
goldstar said:
OK. As luck would have it I was doing a remodel job in the same town this week and found this. Looks like this was done by the same person as the OP (I'm not going to call him an electrician). Would THIS have been a code compliant installation way back when ? Notice the screw the ground wire is terminated on. No, it's not green. No, it's not identified for its intended use. AND, the tip of the screw is barely holding the side of the box on. The red wire ? Well, I guess whoever did this didn't want to take up space inside the box. At least he put a wire nut on it.

I'm on a roll. Wonder how many more of these gesius installations I'll find before I go on vacation.:?

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The rare Spiral Hat Mushroom (electrohattake). Rumor has it, if you break off the cap and lick the shiny stem, it packs a whopper of a buzz!

Hack work. Everyone knows if you have to remove a KO and not cover it, you do it so the inspector wont see it (on the back/bottom). :D
 
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