Grounding & Bonding for DIFFERENT Reasons

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Grounding & Bonding for DIFFERENT Reasons

  • Yes this is useful information in my workplace

    Votes: 14 73.7%
  • No this is not useful information in my workplace

    Votes: 5 26.3%

  • Total voters
    19
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tryinghard

Senior Member
Location
California
All electricians do not ground for the same reasons. There are different types of electricians with each having specific skills and trades like:
1 High voltage (lineman, transmission & utility service)
2 Data/communication/signal (Communication & System Installer/Technician)
3 Premises wiring of 600 volts and less (journeyman inside wireman).

Even the label ?electrician? is too broad and not descriptive enough causing confusion regarding installations especially grounding and bonding. These different electrical trades DO ground commonly to control lightning and transformer failures but that?s it, they do NOT share common reasons for ground fault control (equipment ground conductors & effective ground fault path) or even unbalance load return path, the grounded conductor (neutral).

It is most important to have a low impedance path that enables the highest amperes to instantaneously open a ground fault; ohms law (I=E/R) can help us understand this through some examples below.
1 High voltage: a ground fault to a reasonably low impedance ground will enable high current that will blow fuses or activate relays that open circuitry. High voltage will also install mid-point electrodes to lower impedance intentionally creating a parallel unbalanced load (neutral) return path.
A- 800A=22KV/25ohms*(electrode system ohms are environmentally controlled, unknown moment by moment, therefore so is the current)
B- 680A=17KV/25*
As you can see these circuits will open even with 650A protection all the more insured to open with lower ampere protection!

2 Premises wiring of 600 volts and less: Unlike high voltage 600 volts or less grounding to earth is not effective to open a circuit that has ground fault, in fact it usually allows circuitry to remain activated.
A- 4.4A=110V/25*
B- 11A=277/25*
C- 19A=480/25*
As you can see these circuits will NOT open even with 15 & 20A protection, respectively!

3 But an effective ground fault path ? EGC as qualified in 250-118 ? IS EXTREMLY EFFECTIVE to open a circuit in ground fault usually instantaneously!
A- 55A=110V/2ohms **(2 ohms is conservatively fixed with correct installation and not environmentally controlled)
B- 139A=277/2**
C- 240A=480/2**
As you can see these circuits WILL open instantaneously with protection values less or near these results! Of course the service grounded conductor (neutral) does need to be bonded to the case at the service disconnect to allow this path to source ? serving transformer.

According to the National Electrical Code premises wiring of 600 volts or less cannot use the earth for a ground fault path (250-4(A)(5) & (B)(4)). This type of circuitry must use equipment ground conductors & effective ground fault paths, which are known not assumed, from source to destination to enable OCPD protection (250-4(A)(3)-(5), 250 V, 250 VI, & 250 VII). Also equipment-grounding paths should follow the circuit route the same as the phases or neutral. All this to ensure a low impedance path from source to destination that ENABLES the operation of OCPD?s which in reverse a high impedance usually DISABLES the operation of the OCPD?s.

In summary we really have 3 worlds colliding with electricians and their use of grounding:
1 High voltage = return path for the unbalanced load/drain to open circuit/effective ground fault path/lightning & transformer failure control
2 Data/communication/signal = drain to clean circuit/lightning & transformer failure control
3 Premises wiring of 600 volts and less = lightning & transformer failure control ONLY!

My hope is to untangle the broad use for reasons to ground while untangling the broad use of the label ?electrician?. It will be good if this provokes discussion because these discussions will help equip us to explain reasons for grounding to others, possible even those in our trade but certainly those curious/related.
 
georgestolz said:
I don't have anything to argue about your post. :D

What does the poll mean? I don't get it. :)

In my workplace we have all types of very qualified electricians, they each probably understand the differences in terminology (they should) but also each use slang that is really only understood by their piers. Because of this grounding is greatly misapplied and misunderstood especially by non-electrician listeners.
I thought it might be helpful to have a visual if others in this forum see it this way. Just vote accordingly if you think this information is or isn?t helpful in clearing misunderstandings in your workplace.
 
bphgravity said:
What does:

"drain to open circuit" and "drain to clean circuit" mean?

I don't understand these words either.

I don't think that we, NEC guys, ever "ground" in order to open the OCPD. I have been under the impression that the OCPD device opened throuhg "bonding"
 
bphgravity said:
What does:
"drain to open circuit" and "drain to clean circuit" mean?
And
jwelectric said:
I don't understand these words either.
I don't think that we, NEC guys, ever "ground" in order to open the OCPD. I have been under the impression that the OCPD device opened throuhg "bonding"
With regard to bonding:
That?s for sure and it?s exactly what I tried to point out in example 3 of my post.

And drains:
Data/Communication/Signal use ?drain to clean circuit?, meaning they use cabling that intentionally connects to our EGC system to evacuate stray current. The shielding in signal cabling is used to collect and drain stray current to ground ? usually through our bonds/EGC?s. Also when a bare conductor is included with dc cabling it?s called a drain and it?s used for the same reasons above.

High voltage use ?drain to open circuit?, meaning the same as an effective ground fault path. In other words high voltage can rely on grounding to provide short-circuit and ground fault protection as ohms law reveals whereas us in the premises wiring of 600 volts or less cannot.
 
"drain . . .circuit" is a term that in my opinion merely obfuscates and confuses. Current returns to source. I think your information is well intentioned, and is a good start for a 1-page presentation (if that's what it is). Mike Holt's "Grounding and Bonding" is a great DVD, if you want to provide your workplace with some training, however, and I strongly recommend it (not because this is Mike's forum, but because I bought it and its very informative).
 
iwire said:
Really? :smile:

How does an earth ground prevent "line surges"?

How does an earth ground "stabilize the voltage to earth"?

I don?t know about these but would like to.

I understand 250-4(A)(1) to mean install electrode system connection to earth for lightning and transformer failure routing. I?m one of those monkey?s who just does what it says not fully understanding it, I see it the same as these attachments though.
 
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nakulak said:
"drain . . .circuit" is a term that in my opinion merely obfuscates and confuses. Current returns to source. I think your information is well intentioned, and is a good start for a 1-page presentation (if that's what it is). Mike Holt's "Grounding and Bonding" is a great DVD, if you want to provide your workplace with some training, however, and I strongly recommend it (not because this is Mike's forum, but because I bought it and its very informative).

I agree I have his book instead though.
 
How come?

How come?

tryinghard said:
I agree I have his book instead though.

tryinghard,

Have you looked at NASA standard 4003? Grounding and Bonding are defined into 5 classes for existing electrical conditions. The classes, C..circuits, H..hazard equipment faults, L..lightning, Transients, R..Electromagnetic, RF, and S..Electrostatics, Frictional
Some day the electrical industry might define bonding and grounding a little more indepth.

good luck, rbj
 
iwire said:
Really? :smile:
Bonding to the grounded conductor enables an effective ground fault path to source, this should be treated as important (same emphasis) as providing the correct circuit. Equipment grounding is integral with the bond of the grounded conductor to enable effective ground fault paths downstream. Without correct bonding circuitry will function but will not have the protection of short-circuit & ground-fault. So bonding is extremely important in our trade! Groundings function is not as easy to explain as bonding in the detailed light of 250-4(A)(1).

At face value, and in my opinion, I see grounding as a route for lightning and over-voltages caused by high voltage line increase making transformers secondary rise, or transformer failure. Bob your questions of 250-4(A)(1) are challenging to me and provoked some homework, to try to answer/reply I have noticed some Mike Holt information that may provide these answers from his Grounding-versus-Bonding-Part-2-of-12


iwire said:
How does an earth ground prevent "line surges"?
?Lightning and line surges. emphasis added
When lightning occurs, high voltages drive high current (as much as 40,000A) into the earth for a fraction of a second (Figure 250-21). Typically, lightning strikes to wiring are to outside utility wiring. Therefore, grounding (earthing) the system windings will assist the flow of lightning into the earth.
When a ground fault over 600V occurs, the voltage on the other phases can rise significantly for the duration of the fault (typically 3 to 12 cycles). This voltage surge during the utility ground fault will be transformed into an elevated surge voltage on the secondary-possibly destroying electrical and electronic equipment. The lower the resistance of the utility grounding (earthing) system, the lower the secondary voltage surge.
But, grounding (earthing) has limitations:
? Grounding (earthing) of electrical equipment doesn't serve the purpose of "providing a low-impedance fault-current path to clear ground faults." In fact, the Code prohibits the use of the earth as the sole return path-because it's a poor conductor of current at voltage levels below 600V [250.4(A)(5) and 250.45(B)(4)].
? Grounding (earthing) the metal parts of electrical equipment doesn't protect electrical or electronic equipment from lightning-induced voltage transients (high-frequency voltage impulses) on the circuit conductors inside the building or structure. Nor does it protect equipment within a structure from transients generated from other equipment in that structure.
To provide protection from voltage surges, you must engineer a proper surge protection system. The design should address surge protection devices (Articles 280 and 285) at service equipment, panelboards, and critical loads. Also consider point of use surge protection in branch circuits (not covered by the NEC).
Bonding in grounded systems?


iwire said:
How does an earth ground "stabilize the voltage to earth"?
Grounding in grounded systems. emphasis added
The NEC requires you to ground (earth) system windings to limit the voltage imposed on the system from lightning, unintentional contact with higher-voltage lines, or line surges. Another function of this earthing is to "stabilize the voltage to earth during normal operation" by providing a common reference point.
 
Grounding versus Bonding

Grounding versus Bonding

Dear tryinghard,

I may be wrong, but answers to iwires questions require more than mentioning grounding or even bonding. I think mentioning faying surface bonding dc resistance characteristics is required to determine impedances for an "effective ground-fault current path". The nature of how vague the NEC applies the ground rules to grounding and bonding (pardon the pun) is missing the actual electrical condition requirement. Until actual values of bonding are applied, there is no true definition in Article 250. As I didn't mention earlier, the NASA-std-4003 at least does that for building facilities and launch vehicles in the aerospace industry. Maybe the electrical industry could define grounding and bonding in such a way to improve the NEC definitions. JMO rbj
 
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iwire said:
Really? :smile:

How does an earth ground prevent "line surges"?

How does an earth ground "stabilize the voltage to earth"?

I think another Mike Holt site Grounding-vs-Bonding-Online-Training-6 may help answer these, but it may not:roll:?? In this site Mike states:

(B) Ungrounded Systems. emphasis added

"Author?s Comment: According to IEEE 242?System overvoltage can be caused by repetitive charging of the system capacitance or by resonance between the system capacitance and the inductances of equipment in the system [7.2.5].
In addition, ANSI/IEEE 142, Recommended Practice for Grounding of Industrial and Commercial Power Systems (Green Book) states, ?One of the dangers of an ungrounded system is that system overvoltages can occur during arcing, resonant or near-resonant ground faults [1.4.2].? And, ?Field experience and theoretical studies have shown that arcing, restriking, or vibrating ground faults on ungrounded systems can, under certain conditions, produce surge voltages as high as six times normal?
The conditions necessary for producing overvoltage require that the dielectric strength of the arc path build up at a higher rate after each extinction of the arc than it did after the preceding extinction?
Neutral grounding is effective in reducing transient voltage buildup from such intermittent ground faults by reducing neutral displacement from ground potential and reducing destructive effectiveness of any high-frequency voltage oscillations following each arc initiation or restrike [1.2.14].? Figure 250?27
1113844523_6.jpg

The above does not qualify why earth is involved but it does seem to qualify why the XO needs to bond. In this example and sense it seems to stabilize the voltage. Even though I?ve read all this I now have a little more understanding but I don?t know why:-? So I?m still a monkey installing the electrode cus it says so:grin:

All in all after a little homework I think the NEC needs to give definition to 250-4(A)(1) grounding!
 
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