grounding cable trays

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm doing battle within right now on the damned "to hold" part of the definition of "enclose" I see in EVERY dictionary and the fact that I don't believe that the NEC meant "to hold" based on my own preconceived notion of what enclosed means.
Click to expand...

I believe that the reason that you are struggling with this definition is you preconcieved notion of what enclosed means. As Charlie has pointed out several times we need to learn to read things like it is the first time we are reading them.

We all have preconcieved notions but when reading the code book I find it very common to notice that what I thought the section said was wrong due to a preconcieved notion.

Just some food for thought.

Chris
 
Twoskinsoneman said:
Hold your hand out and grab the bottom of a glass of beer... no one thinks "I'm enclosing this beer."
Click to expand...
Not for long anyways, the hand would soon be inverted. :grin:

Roger
 
Twoskinsoneman said:
You may :grin: .
Although I have said I would ground the tray anyway.
It's just an excercise in picking a single word in the Book to death :smile: .
I'm doing battle within right now on the damned "to hold" part of the definition of "enclose" I see in EVERY dictionary and the fact that I don't believe that the NEC meant "to hold" based on my own preconceived notion of what enclosed means. Also I'm having a hard time being persuaded by your arguements based on the fact that I think your biased toward grounding everything (which is a good bias), and not being honest about your preconceived notion of the word "enclosed".

You may be right that the definition may include "to hold", but do you believe this is the intended definition... althouth intented doesn't really matter.

Hold your hand out and grab the bottom of a glass of beer... no one thinks "I'm enclosing this beer."
Click to expand...

I did not argue that it means 'to hold', somebody else did and I do not agree with that notion. I just pointed out that if the grounding rule applies BECAUSE it has to be enclosed, then there are tray configuration where the cables indeed are enclosed in covered ventilated trays, not the ladder type open systems that more look like a support than anything else. I agree that the cable tray is not provided to mechanically protect the cables in the same manner as cables, but that is the reason why it has different - not sufficiently described - restrictions on the installation method. In other words, not grounding the cable tray should find another reasoning than the 'not enclosed' argument.

Therefore I reject your accusation that I am not being honest about it.

To be clear about it, IMO all conductive non-currentcarrying parts of an electrical installation should be bonded together and effectively connected to an underground grounding system or equivalent.
 
raider1 said:
I believe that the reason that you are struggling with this definition is you preconcieved notion of what enclosed means. As Charlie has pointed out several times we need to learn to read things like it is the first time we are reading them.

We all have preconcieved notions but when reading the code book I find it very common to notice that what I thought the section said was wrong due to a preconcieved notion.

Just some food for thought.

Chris
Click to expand...

Your right. In fact it is exactly what I said

"I'm doing battle within right now on the damned "to hold" part of the definition of "enclose" I see in EVERY dictionary and the fact that I don't believe that the NEC meant "to hold" based on my own preconceived notion of what enclosed means. Also I'm having a hard time being persuaded by your arguements based on the fact that I think your biased toward grounding everything (which is a good bias), and not being honest about your preconceived notion of the word "enclosed"."
 
weressl said:
I did not argue that it means 'to hold', somebody else did and I do not agree with that notion. I just pointed out that if the grounding rule applies BECAUSE it has to be enclosed, then there are tray configuration where the cables indeed are enclosed in covered ventilated trays, not the ladder type open systems that more look like a support than anything else. I agree that the cable tray is not provided to mechanically protect the cables in the same manner as cables, but that is the reason why it has different - not sufficiently described - restrictions on the installation method. In other words, not grounding the cable tray should find another reasoning than the 'not enclosed' argument.

Therefore I reject your accusation that I am not being honest about it.

To be clear about it, IMO all conductive non-currentcarrying parts of an electrical installation should be bonded together and effectively connected to an underground grounding system or equivalent.
Click to expand...

I didn't not mean for my entire post to seem like it was pointed at you. I quoted you and spoke to everyone. I accept your rejection of my accusation.:smile:

What is your opion that everything should be grounded? Basically the vagueness of "likely to become energized"?
 
Twoskinsoneman said:
I didn't not mean for my entire post to seem like it was pointed at you. I quoted you and spoke to everyone. I accept your rejection of my accusation.:smile:

What is your opion that everything should be grounded? Basically the vagueness of "likely to become energized"?
Click to expand...

Sorry, your excuse is lame. To quote "Also I'm having a hard time being persuaded by your arguements based on the fact that I think your biased toward grounding everything (which is a good bias), and not being honest about your preconceived notion of the word "enclosed"." This is not speaking to everyone, this addresses me.
 
weressl said:
Sorry, your excuse is lame. To quote "Also I'm having a hard time being persuaded by your arguements based on the fact that I think your biased toward grounding everything (which is a good bias), and not being honest about your preconceived notion of the word "enclosed"." This is not speaking to everyone, this addresses me.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry Mr Weressl. I was WAY out of line. I am no English major and I was using "your" to address everyone who was making the "to hold" arguement. The first couple lines of what I said

"You may :grin: .
Although I have said I would ground the tray anyway.
It's just an excercise in picking a single word in the Book to death :smile: ."

THOSE were for you. I was actually please you seemed to AGREE with me that the NEC did NOT mean "to hold" when it said "enclosed"

FYI This entire post was directed toward weressl :grin:
 
Twoskinsoneman said:
I'm sorry Mr Weressl. I was WAY out of line. I am no English major and I was using "your" to address everyone who was making the "to hold" arguement. The first couple lines of what I said

"You may :grin: .
Although I have said I would ground the tray anyway.
It's just an excercise in picking a single word in the Book to death :smile: ."

THOSE were for you. I was actually please you seemed to AGREE with me that the NEC did NOT mean "to hold" when it said "enclosed"

FYI This entire post was directed toward weressl :grin:
Click to expand...

No harm done, but FYI, not only am I not and English major - reached only corporal's rank when I was drafted:grin: - but English is my fourth language.

All the more I find it necessary that I express myself with carefuly chosen words. I try to speak as I work, as I produce.:) That way I never insult somebody incidentaly.........:grin:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top