Grounding of Rec.

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pferucci

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I Have a house where the Rec. are not grounded and no ground wire present.
The inspector wants all Rec. in the Kitchen and Dinning room grounded. what should i do. Is there somthing in the NEC that address's this issue. I heard that a GFCI at the first REC in line is acceptable but not sure.
 
What is the reason an inspector is requiring you to do this to an existing installation? Is there other permitted work going on in the house?

Along with the code sections already mentioned by Mike, 250.114 may be relevant to your situation.

Roger
 
Grounding of Rec.

No, There is no other work being done to the home. But the house is up for sale and these items the home inspector whats done.
 
Challenge him to cite code or a local ordinance that requires this. Sure, it's a safety issue, but it's preexisting work that was compliant (presumably) when installed. I can't imagine a local ordinance that requires certain upgrades upon the sale of a house, but I've seen stranger things. He'll back down if he can't cite code.

Of course, this may not be worth fighting over if it's the only thing standing in the way of closing on the house. How many receptacles are we talking about here? If it becomes a bitch of an issue, you could just put GFCI breakers in to cover those branch circuits, instead of installing GFCI receptacles. You'd probably have to tear out the old boxes and use bigger old work ones, make a mess of the drywall, etc. It might be worth a few GFCI breakers if this is the only sticking point.
 
A ?Home Inspector? has no authority to require any changes be made to a home. None.

However, a prospective buyer is free to use the HI?s report as a bargaining tool. It will then become a matter of the owner and the buyer agreeing on what work will be done and how that influences the purchase price.
 
jwelectric said:
I thought that you was talking about a real inspector.
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h

That is to funny. I have had run in with these inspectors and I always ask them to recite the article in the year that the house was built to which they are basing their observations on. They look at you like "DUH!!" GFCI's are their favorite gig. Ultimately, you are at the direction of the owner who will probably pay you to do the work to speed up the sale of the home and right it off as a capitol loss.
 
allenwayne said:
Ask him for an applicable article that requires existing receptacles to be grounded 3 wire types.
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He does not have to.

A home inspector is not a code inspector.

Also as Charlie pointed out they have absolutely no authority at all to require anything.

What they can do, and should do is provide the buyer with a laundry list of potential safety issues from non grounded circuits to poor foundations.

Once the buyer has this list they can walk away from the home or try to use the list as a barging tool with the homes owner.

The home owner can either agree to fix the issues brought up or not.

No one will be required to do anything (in most states)
 
It is time that home inspectors need to start knowing code before trying to do inspections.At the point that a HI is hired a contract to purchase and sell has already been signed.The buyer usually has the right to hire an inspector.Should he try to back out of sale do to faulty inspector reports he could find himself in court and that HI might end up being sued for demanding anything.This could result into thousands of dollars from both seller in lost sale as well as realtors commision.His job is to SUGGEST that they might want an electrician.Far too often the seller just wants to close on the deal and pays for the upgrade.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
It is time that home inspectors need to start knowing code before trying to do inspections.
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No they don't need to know the NEC.

Most will not even put a code citation that they know for sure.

Why?

Because they are not code inspectors.

Think of them as home safety inspectors.

There inform the buy of potential safety issues.

You do realize that even though something may not be a code violation that it can still be a safety issue.

And again NO ONE IS REQUIRED TO DO ANYTHING!

The home owner can refuse to lower the price and refuse to change the items in the report.

If the potential buyer feels grounded outlets are important than it will be there choice to find a solution.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
.Should he try to back out of sale do to faulty inspector reports he could find himself in court and that HI might end up being sued for demanding anything.
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Jim reporting the home does not have grounded receptacles when the home does not have grounded receptacles is not a faulty report.

Going on to say that todays codes require new homes to have grounded receptacles is not a faulty report.

Again the HI has no authority to require anything.

It will be entirely up to the home owner to decide what they are willing to do.

Far too often the seller just wants to close on the deal and pays for the upgrade.
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That will be their choice, they could wait for another buyer or lower the asking price or upgrade the electric.
 
OP
The inspector wants all Rec. in the Kitchen and Dinning room grounded.

If i hire a HI its because i lack the ability to know whats wrong .At $200 and up for 3 hours work i should be getting someone that knows something,if not why not just let uncle George do it.While i dont exspect to get a master electrician i do want him to know what is ok and what is not.He will see hundreds of homes with no grounds or even gfci,will he be failing all of them ?His job is to inform them of things they might have missed,like the no grounds.He can not WANT anything.His report should have said something like this.

Kitchen and dining rooms do not have grounded receptacles or gfci.They likely were not required at time home was built but would be required on a new home today.This is not a violation of NEC do to grandfathering.Consult an electrician if this concerns you.

Now he has done his job.
 
Jim you are so stuck on the NEC aspect of this.

It is not about the NEC.

It is about the buyer being informed about potential safety issues.

And as far as the OP we really don't know what the HI actually said.

Most likely the HI said something to the effect of 'This home does not have grounded receptacles and new homes are required to.'

Do I have this right?

You expect HIs should be required to know the NEC in a state that does not require persons actually installing wiring to know the NEC?

Sounds a bit far fetched.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Kitchen and dining rooms do not have grounded receptacles or gfci.They likely were not required at time home was built but would be required on a new home today.This is not a violation of NEC do to grandfathering.Consult an electrician if this concerns you..
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I agree Jim and I bet that is a lot closer to the HIs report than

The inspector wants all Rec. in the Kitchen and Dinning room grounded.
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Do you really think the HIs report says

"I want all Rec. in the Kitchen and Dinning room grounded."
 
Would it be fair to say that a HI should have been trained or work in enough fields to know about plumbing,electrical,A/C ,carpentry,roofing,etc,to a degree that he knows what is or isnt wrong ? Not saying he needs to be an electrician but before he charges money know whats out there in older homes.If they miss some things and call down things that are legal then he not worth much.Am sure they have a disclaimer on report.Sounds like a great job,great money and can be wrong and still get paid.I am still thinking of being one.A few a week and be making as much as being an electrician or real inspector here.
 
HB-1-3550 Paragraph 5.3-4 said:
3. Review of Property and Site for Compliance with Agency Standards
Before loan approval, the Loan Originator must confirm that the property meets, or will meet with any planned constructions or repairs, all applicable Agency requirements. This is accomplished both through determinations made directly by the Loan Originator and review of opinions or determinations made by others, such as appraisers, local building officials, architectural and engineering professionals, and trades professionals.
4. Identification and Correction of Deficiencies
If at any point during the review process, deficiencies are identified that jeopardize the Agency?s ability to approve a loan, the Loan Originator must notify the applicant and give the applicant at least 30 days to resolve the deficiency. For example, if an inspection reveals a structural deficiency that can be corrected, the applicant could negotiate with the seller to reduce the sales price so that funds to correct the deficiency could be included in the loan, or to correct the deficiency before the property is transferred.
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I used to work for a guy that did a lot of work in rural communities. For an existing home to qualify for a USDA Rural Development farm loan it had to be inspected by "others". They had no problem with old load centers having two conductors on OCP, but those HI's would nail ungrounded receptacles and lack of GFCI every time. Without the corrections - no sale! VA loans are almost as strict.
 
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