Grounding of Rec.

[memyselfandI]

I disagree: "double-tapped" breakers are.

I forgot about those. I tell you, Harry Homeowner does some freaky stuff, but Harry's buddy does some even freakier stuff.

 

[pferucci]

Ground Rec

Ground Rec

This is all nice to know but what is the fix should I run a ground to the water line to each rec., LOL. OR is a GFCI ok at the first Rec on te Branch circiut?, I believe the Later is true. I don't think the HI is enforcing this just put it on thr list of repair.
Thanks for your response Guys.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

This is all nice to know but what is the fix should I run a ground to the water line to each rec., LOL. OR is a GFCI ok at the first Rec on te Branch circiut?, I believe the Later is true. I don't think the HI is enforcing this just put it on thr list of repair.
Thanks for your response Guys.

Several ways to go
1. do nothing and tell the HI he backs down on REQUIRING them or see you in court.He will look foolish standing in front of a judge with his lack of electrical knowledge and you standing there with code book and being an EC.Note something that has not been said here.If kitchen and dining room have no grounds i rather exspect rest of house lacks them too.If grounded receptacles are required it would be for ALL of them.

2.You could do as already suggested and add gfci breaker (assuming they are available for this panel,if not gfci with slaves (check box size first).

3. Tell buyer the home is AS IS ,unless in contract you agreed to repairs (often in contracts)

4. Rewire the circuits (very costly)

5.Do the red neck thing and find him alone and work this out with your ----(illegal) and knock him down a few inches.

6.Have a county inspector or other quailified inspector make a report and use code referances to prove him wrong.

While gfci are great to have they are not required if grandfathered in.
As to the non grounded receptacles very few household items require them.A few that do are microwaves,frig,computors.All of them can work safely on a gfci.

Post copy of report if you can.As Bob said he probably did not word this as" I WANT"

 

[roger]

If grounded receptacles are required it would be for ALL of them.

That is not necessarily true Jim, Laundry Area receptacles were required to be a three pole when no others in the dwelling were.

Roger

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

That is not necessarily true Jim, Laundry Area receptacles were required to be a three pole when no others in the dwelling were.

Roger

Hard part for any inspector is to know what year code was inforced at time of pulling the permit.Often we are behind atleast one cycle or more and if the house took a few years to get built we would need to go to the year of permit.
I do agree that laundry should have them,but that too likely was not done on this home.

 

[George Stolz]

This is all nice to know but what is the fix should I run a ground to the water line to each rec., LOL. OR is a GFCI ok at the first Rec on te Branch circiut?, I believe the Later is true. I don't think the HI is enforcing this just put it on the list of repair.

Mike answered this in the first reply. See 406.3(D), 250.130, and 250.114 as Roger directed.

I'd say if the wiring is that old, it might be as easy to just replace the old branch circuits with new. It would be more expensive, but probably not much.

Edit to add: Nice post Minuteman, it truly brought relevance to the report.

 

[Minuteman]

Nice post Minuteman, it truly brought relevance to the report.

Thanks George. I thought for a little bit there that I was being ignored. Point is, the HO has to do the repairs listed by the HI if there is to be a USDA or VA loan. Period.

I Have a house where the Rec. are not grounded and no ground wire present.
The inspector wants all Rec. in the Kitchen and Dinning room grounded. what should i do. Is there somthing in the NEC that address's this issue. I heard that a GFCI at the first REC in line is acceptable but not sure.

Yep, if you have to do it, then that is the quickest and cheapest legal way to do it. 406.3 (D) (3) (b) & (c)

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Thanks George. I thought for a little bit there that I was being ignored. Point is, the HO has to do the repairs listed by the HI if there is to be a USDA or VA loan. Period.




Yep, if you have to do it, then that is the quickest and cheapest legal way to do it. 406.3 (D) (3) (b) & (c)

Are you saying that seller must correct everything the HI wants,regardless of it being an nec violation or not ?

 

[iwire]

Are you saying that seller must correct everything the HI wants,regardless of it being an nec violation or not ?

Jim, only if the seller wants to sell to a buyer that is getting a loan that requires it.

In other words the seller does not have to help the buyer get financing, they can say no and wait for another buyer.

But there are States that have rules outside the NEC that require corrections at the time of a sale.

Here in MA for instance GFCIs must be installed in Bathrooms as part of some housing code.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Jim, only if the seller wants to sell to a buyer that is getting a loan that requires it.

In other words the seller does not have to help the buyer get financing, they can say no and wait for another buyer.

But there are States that have rules outside the NEC that require corrections at the time of a sale.

Here in MA for instance GFCIs must be installed in Bathrooms as part of some housing code.

Bob, i am fine with repairs needed by nec or local code but when it gets to the point of an HI making up his own then i have a problem.Was a time many years ago that some sellers would simply say NO to anyone wanting a VA loan.They were usually slower and problems so best to just pass them up .

 

[Minuteman]

Jim, I would suppose that if the HI was way of base, and push came to shove, then an HO with someone in his corner that was more knowledgeable of code might prevail. However, as Bob pointed out, if you want to play their game, you gotta play by their rules.

 

[iwire]

Bob, i am fine with repairs needed by nec or local code but when it gets to the point of an HI making up his own then i have a problem.Was a time many years ago that some sellers would simply say NO to anyone wanting a VA loan.They were usually slower and problems so best to just pass them up .

Jim they are not making up code(s).

They can't, they simply have no authority to.

This is not the same as an AHJ holding up an occupancy permit with made up rules.

They are simply stating that the installation can be safer than it is today.

If the people loaning the money want EGCs as a condition of the loan it is within their rights.

The seller is free to walk away from a sale if they don't like the conditions of the sale.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Jim, I would suppose that if the HI was way of base, and push came to shove, then an HO with someone in his corner that was more knowledgeable of code might prevail. However, as Bob pointed out, if you want to play their game, you gotta play by their rules.

Believe me i would play the game and make plenty when i sue that HI for his mistake.And i am sure the realtors will join in.HI that can not site codes and just opinions that result in destroying a sale need dealt with.

 

[iwire]

Believe me i would play the game and make plenty when i sue that HI for his mistake.

Jim what is the mistake.

The only possible mistake would be the HI saying that "the NEC requires that EGCS be added to exsisting homes."

I highly doubt that is what was said.

Conditions are always part of life.

To get electrical service you have to follow the power companies rules even if they go beyond the NEC.

To get an auto loan you must agree to insure the vehicle even if there is no mandatory insurance law.

I believe some insurance companies refuse to insure a home with fuse panels.

There is no NEC rule to back that up, I can install fuses today per the NEC.

You can not sue the insurance company over this, it is just a condition they require before they accept your business.

If you spent any time at the HI sites you would find they are sued more often for what they don't report than what they do report.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

"The only possible mistake would be the HI saying that "the NEC requires that EGCS be added to exsisting homes."

I would call that a BIG mistake.Nothing cheap about fixing.