grounding screw?

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shortcircuit2

Senior Member
Location
South of Bawstin
Re: grounding screw?

90.4 would give the AHJ the right to approve or disapprove of the use of the box clamp screw for grounding purposes...and this was exercised upon myself once upon a time, so I jus use the green grd screw...

shortcircuit2
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: grounding screw?

Originally posted by shortcircuit2:
90.4 would give the AHJ the right to approve or disapprove of the use of the box clamp screw for grounding purposes...and this was exercised upon myself once upon a time, so I jus use the green grd screw...

shortcircuit2
Short C aren't you a MA guy?

If yes I doubt you ever met the 'AHJ'.

You meet inspectors. :cool:
 
10/32 screw racism

10/32 screw racism

a building engineer told me i could not use a green ground screw to connect a breaker in a panel. the tapped hole is 10/32. so what is the problem? it appears article 250.148a is a foolish requirement. a 10/32 screw is a 10/32 screw no matter what color it is.
 

flash hazard

Member
Location
CT
i talked to Mark Ode a staff engineering associate at U.L. and his stance was that there is no ul listed screw for bonding. the only listed product is the green screw with the tail already attached.his opinion was even though there is no listing for a green screw or any screw that the larger head on the green screws hold the wire better and will have less resistance during a fault than taking the 10-32 thats already installed in the box. as was already stated in this thread it comes down to 90.4
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
1100200131_2.jpg

Looks like 110.3(B) might be part of the issue...along with 90.4, and some sizzle on the sale!
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
If you use information from NEMA as part of the listing and labeling requirements, and guidance on 110.12 matters, they are even particular about which threaded hole you use. You shouldn't, for instance, use an unused clamp screw hole for your ground screw. They even prefer that the ground screw thread pitch should be 10-32.

From the NEMA document, "Selection and Installation Guidelines for Electrical Outlet Boxes":

2.5.2 Grounding and Bonding
2.5.2.1 Metal BoxesThe NEC? requires that metal boxes be
grounded independently of any devices installed.
This may be accomplished through the use of a
continuous grounded raceway or cable armor, or
through the use of separate grounding
conductors. If grounding conductors are used,
the following methods may be employed to
ground the box. If multiple grounding conductors
are present they must be spliced together before
attaching to the box.
1) Attach the conductor to the box using a 10-32
ground screw
. This is the preferred method.
Whenever there is paint or corrosion on the
box surface, under a screw head, the area
should be scraped or sanded shiny before the
ground wire is wrapped around the screw.
Other holes, including tapped holes containing
other screws, are not intended for grounding.

2) Use a listed ground clip on the side of the box.
Such clips are only suitable for use on flat
surfaces. Ground clips are listed for the
thicknesses of boxes for which they have been
evaluated. If the clips have been evaluated for
a range of thicknesses, the package of clips
will be marked accordingly
 

flash hazard

Member
Location
CT
ground screw

ground screw

mdshunk said:
Attach the conductor to the box using a 10-32
ground screw.
there is no such thing as a listed ground screw.so is any 10-32 acceptable. if NEMA has one let me know.
 
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iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
chateau mike said:
a building engineer told me i could not use a green ground screw to connect a breaker in a panel.

I agree with the engineer.

I will only use the correct parts from the panel manufacturer to replace current carrying parts of a panel board.

This has nothing to do with 250.148 or the color of the screw.

It has to do with 110.3(B). (Installation and use of listed equipment)
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
flash hazard said:
there is no such thing as a listed ground screw.so is any 10-32 acceptable. if NEMA has one let me know.
They didn't say it has to be listed. :rolleyes: There are NEMA members that make "ground screws". They say that right on the package.
 

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
mdshunk said:
Other holes, including tapped holes containing
other screws, are not intended for grounding.

I think that this phrase is related to using (1) hole/screw to do two different functions (i.e connect the ground wire and at the same time clamp the cable). I do not see how this phrase prevents you from using any empty threaded hole that no longer "contains a screw".

And as far as NEMA suggestions being part of listing instructions, how often are they were include in the product packaging? Other than switchboards, MCCs, panelboards, and busways I don't think I have ever seen NEMA publications/instructions as standard literature.
 

flash hazard

Member
Location
CT
mdshunk said:
They didn't say it has to be listed. :rolleyes: There are NEMA members that make "ground screws". They say that right on the package.
marc, what is NEMA's definition of a ground screw? im only asking because ul dosen't seem to list one,exept for main bonding screw or a grounding screw with the tail already attached. i would think that a screw would fall under 250-8 "or other listed means". if so than would'nt stripping a wire and wrapping it around a screw not be code compliant becase there is no listing for one. not saying that it should be but thats how it seems to read (to me anyway). or am i looking too far into this? i would like to hear your thoughts on this thank you.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
flash hazard said:
i would like to hear your thoughts on this thank you.
I don't know. I don't think that far into stuff, I guess. I posted all I think I know about this topic, which ain't much.

I have a magic e-mail in box, so something might come to me. :grin: I'm not afraid to hang it all out there, and be wrong about something. People who have an idea email me stuff all the time to post on various sites in response to questions. I'm happy to be wrong. Part of learning. You could fill lots of very big books with all the stuff I've been wrong about.
 
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flash hazard

Member
Location
CT
thanks for your replay Marc. im sure im looking too far into this. Ive never heard of any inspecter calling someone one having a ground wire wrapped around a screw. just stirring an empty pot i guess.:) my feeling is a 10-32 is a 10-32.green or not green. if anyone has ever been called on wrapping a ground wire around a screw id be curious to know.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
flash hazard said:
Ive never heard of any inspecter calling someone one having a ground wire wrapped around a screw. just stirring an empty pot i guess.:) my feeling is a 10-32 is a 10-32.green or not green. if anyone has ever been called on wrapping a ground wire around a screw id be curious to know.

I had an inspector try to call me on a screw that he thought wasn't green (it was). He told me the screw had to be green and I told him to get a ladder and go look again because it was green.

So yes he wanted a green screw but he didn't care that it was wrapped around the screw.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Dennis Alwon said:
So yes he wanted a green screw but he didn't care that it was wrapped around the screw.

Psychojohn said:
I was told that they want the screw to be a green ground screw so that they can tell that it is a machine screw and not a sheet metal screw without removing it.

The inspector may want a green screw but the inspector can not require a green screw unless there is a local amendment.

The NEC does require that the grounding screw on a device to be green, the NEC does not require the screw connecting the EGC to a box to be green.

There is only one listed box grounding device that I am aware of and it is a grounding clip.
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
The inspector may want a green screw but the inspector can not require a green screw unless there is a local amendment.


We had one that required both a decent guy little hard headed, I was an apprentice and was told to move all the pigtails to the factory hole. Luckily most had been installed in the "correct hole" (per the inspector)

This guy had a personal thing about this issue and I was told by our super it was easier to comply.

There is only one listed box grounding device that I am aware of and it is a grounding clip.

While I have not used one of these in years, IMO they are junk o wee junk maybe they have improved.
 
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