Habitial room

Status
Not open for further replies.
Cavie

Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
Is an "Enrty Foyer" with a stair way, door ways and open doors a "Habitial Room" subject to the 2' wall space and 6' spacing rules. I think it is. I have an electrican telling me it is a "Hallway".
 
Cavie said:
Is an "Enrty Foyer" with a stair way, door ways and open doors a "Habitial Room" subject to the 2' wall space and 6' spacing rules. I think it is. I have an electrican telling me it is a "Hallway".
Click to expand...

I would judge this on case by case method.If big enough for a chair then i might call it habitable.But then i seen halls that big too.
It's your call but might be a tough one to win
 
If I can stand in it, I am Habitating it!!!! Besides that , my wife is gonns want to place a table, lamp and guestbook there!!!!!
 
Last edited:
I wish the NEC would Discribe a 'Habitable Room". They also do not discribe a "Hallway" so i guess it is up to me as the "AHJ" to decide it!!!!!!
 
I Agree For Once With The Ahj But I Think You Need To Consider If Some Type Of Furniture Would Be Placed There Or Such As A Table Lamp Or Other Cord And Plug Item Would Be Placed There.
 
If you can come up with an arguement that it is a "similar room or AREA" 210.52(A) General Provisions (NEC 2005 Handbook)

IMO area would be the key word.

and if it is at the bottom of a stairs I would want a place to plug in a vaccuum
 
Okay, Okay, if it is like a honkin' huge foyer, and obvious that some hunk of furniture may set there, then okay require a recept. But I can't see requiring the 6' of wall space rule.

Unless it's in a written "local code" supplement that is made available to all ECs.
 
Cavie said:
so i guess it is up to me as the "AHJ" to decide it!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Okay, your an inspector, maybe even the chief inspector. But, in most cases - the governing authority that hired you is the AHJ. Best analogy I can liken you to, would be a cop that enforces the law as passed by the governing body. I hope you don't just fly by the seat of your pants.
 
The IRC defines a Habitable Space as : "A space in a building for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas are not considered habitable spaces."
 
marinesgt0411 said:
If you can come up with an arguement that it is a "similar room or AREA" 210.52(A) General Provisions (NEC 2005 Handbook)

IMO area would be the key word.

and if it is at the bottom of a stairs I would want a place to plug in a vaccuum
Click to expand...


Nothing wrong in wanting,but someone needs to pay for it.Once again nec fails us.Perhaps an additional book is in need that while a lot bigger would define these words and render in plain english what they are trying to say.Maybe even just a web site with a search.Seems that the longer i stay in this trade the less i know,or is it that they just keep changing the rules.
 
2-195 Log #397 NEC-P02 Final Action: Reject
(210.52(A))
____________________________________________________________
Submitter: Bradly Shoaf, Davidson County Community College
Recommendation: Revise text to read as follows:
General Provisions states that, in every kitchen, family room, dining room, living room, parlor, library, den and foyers and unoccupied wall space of laundry room, or similar room or areas of dwelling units, receptacles outlets shall be installed according to 210.52(A).
Substantiation: Convenience receptacles will be required for these areas of dwelling units. With the addition of these areas 210.52(A) will reduce the possibilities of a homeowner running a extension cord under a rug and through the foyer room. All receptacles should be placed in as easily accessible location.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The submitter?s concern about the receptacle outlet requirements in foyer areas is already addressed in 210.52(H). The submitter has not substantiated the requirement to add additional receptacles in the laundry space.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 11 Negative: 1
Explanation of Negative:
KING, D.: This proposal should have been accepted in part. The submitter?s recommendation to require receptacles to be installed in foyers in accordance with section 210.52(A) is warranted. I disagree with the panel statement where it states that the submitter?s concerns are addressed in 210.52(H). There are many foyers that are comprised of separate wall spaces that are divided by doors and open entryways to adjacent rooms. These separate wall spaces in many cases are 2 or more feet in width. The dimensions of these foyers in any one direction may not be 10 or more feet in length, thus making the provisions of 210.52(H) not applicable. With this scenario it is possible to have separate wall spaces that are large enough in width to require a receptacle(s) to be installed under the provisions of section 210.52(A). The absence of a requirement for receptacle outlets in these locations would require the use of extension cords to supply power to lamps or other utilization equipment that may be used at these wall spaces as is indicated in the submitter?s substantiation. This would greatly increase the risk of fire due to arcing faults from damaged cords placed across doorways end entryways to provide power to these wall spaces. Requiring foyers to comply with 210.52(A) is warranted and should be given further consideration by Panel 2.

I also think that this needs attention so if you believe as Mr. Shoaf and Mr. King please send in a comment expressing you belief.
 
Cavie said:
Is an "Enrty Foyer" with a stair way, door ways and open doors a "Habitial Room" subject to the 2' wall space and 6' spacing rules. I think it is. I have an electrican telling me it is a "Hallway".
Click to expand...
Would this not simply go by what the print called it.The ahj had its chance at plan review to ask for the outlets.Plan review should be spending more time on that electrical page.To me that was the first inspection.
 
We don't do plan review on residential. That would double the size of the building department. We have 55 inspectors as it is. The print calls it a foyer. The dictionary says a foyer is a " Ernty room or hallway" . Who's on first?
 
This is a subject that has been a pet peeve for me over the years.What constitutes habitable area ???Also when does the 2/6/12 ft rule apply???
The NEC only says any 2 ft or more wall space will have a receptacle and spacing there after will apply.Now that leaves a really gray area.I have done a model a rather large SFR that has an entryway with a high ceiling that has a overhead walkway leading into a familyroom that also has a high ceiling.There are 4 18 in.colums that support the walkway.We have been required to install receptacles on all 4 of the colums since they do measure more than 24 ins around.
In prior threads I have told of a loft area that has a railing this area leads into 3 bedrooms that (I consider a walkway)The problem was that due to truss configuration it took two floor receptacles to comply with spacing requirements.Since it was bid as one receptacle and since we couldn`t charge for the extra receptacle we had to eat the cost due to being needed for code compliance.
IMHO if the floor plan says a hallway then we have an argument that spacing is not required,but in reality floor plans don`t list a hall or walkway this is up to the inspector as to if it is a hallway or not.I just add them on rough in since on final if not there they can tag the install for spacing and that might mean alot of drywall damage and an unhappy builder !!!!!
 
Cavie said:
We don't do plan review on residential. That would double the size of the building department. We have 55 inspectors as it is. The print calls it a foyer. The dictionary says a foyer is a " Ernty room or hallway" . Who's on first?
Click to expand...
OK ,so now the EC says its a hall and he off the hook using your words.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top