Handle Ties

[brother]

These pins ARE NOT intended to cause both breakers to trip together. The Square D Digest clearly says they are for making an "independent trip" 2P.

Ok maybe that was the 'wrong' term to use to say to cause them to 'trip' together.

I think most electricians get the intent of what i meant by the common tie for the breaker. As i see it all the time, One want to make sure that the power going to the appliance is completely off (and not just 1 leg of power), and even though it does NOT state it , its implied that when one breaker trip that it would cause the other breaker to 'open' the power to the other conductor (by pulling the other breaker handle to the off position when it trips even though this may not be a 100% of the time as it may not be strong enuff to do it all the time) to the same appliance.

 

[LarryFine]

. . . when one breaker trip that it would cause the other breaker to 'open' the power to the other conductor (by pulling the other breaker handle to the off position when it trips . . .

That's the purpose of the "internal common trip". Many multi-pole breakers trip by operation of a single section, and a handle-tie alone cannot be relied upon to open all poles.

When I encounter 2- or 3-pole-supplied equipment with a tripped breaker, I make sure all poles are opened manually, and I don't trust that handle-ties alone do the job.

 

[jim dungar]

Ok maybe that was the 'wrong' term to use to say to cause them to 'trip' together.

I think most electricians get the intent of what i meant by the common tie for the breaker. As i see it all the time, One want to make sure that the power going to the appliance is completely off (and not just 1 leg of power), and even though it does NOT state it , its implied that when one breaker trip that it would cause the other breaker to 'open' the power to the other conductor (by pulling the other breaker handle to the off position when it trips even though this may not be a 100% of the time as it may not be strong enuff to do it all the time) to the same appliance.

You are describing a simultaneous manual disconnect of the (2) 1P breakers. This is the purpose of handle ties used on MWBC.

Tripping of a breaker is an automatic operation. A handle tie cannot be used to to create a 2P breaker for use with a 240V load because the code requires them to be "common trip".

Circuit breaker handles are supposed to be trip free, so that the contacts open even if the breaker is held in the On position. I cannot imagine a breaker handle that is trip free and still has enough force to turn a "partner" breaker Off.

 

[brother]

You are describing a simultaneous manual disconnect of the (2) 1P breakers. This is the purpose of handle ties used on MWBC.

Tripping of a breaker is an automatic operation. A handle tie cannot be used to to create a 2P breaker for use with a 240V load because the code requires them to be "common trip".

Circuit breaker handles are supposed to be trip free, so that the contacts open even if the breaker is held in the On position. I cannot imagine a breaker handle that is trip free and still has enough force to turn a "partner" breaker Off.

I do not dispute what you say, and maybe i did not use the right terms and articulate what i meant. Article 240.20 (B) (2005 code) comes to mind. I see they moved it to 240.15 (B) and (B) 1 in the 2008 code. I just know that considering REAL LIFE scenerio especially in alot of old homes that ive seen where they 'illegally' drove a nail between 2 SINGLE pole breakers to get the 240 v for the water heaters and dryer circuits that were added later or were already there in previous old home as i just ran into. Seeing how the person did NOT have enuff money to completely up grade the panel (as is what is REALLY needed).

I think its at least good that 'they' TRIED to make sure that a person would turn off both breakers to that 240 v circuit. And yes maybe it might not be strong enuff to pull the other breaker open (as i stated BEFORE this may NOT be 100% of the time In my previous post!!)

Maybe i assume to much in my humble 'corner' of the world, by saying its 'implied' that the handle ties on the 2 single pole breakers would be better than nothing or could pull the other breaker open or other alternatives when a homeowner does not have enuff money for the full upgrade of the panel. believe it or not i HAVE SEEN where the handle tie did pull the other breaker open on the 'ILLEGAL' breakers.

Believe me i would rather see the 20 yr ILLEGAL '2 single pole breaker with a handle tie/' compared to some of the other SCARY stuff ive seen when homeowners try to get 240 for their water heater or dryer circuits!!

Thanks for the comments and have a good day.