We are currently working on a project utilizing some existing Westinghouse panelboards filled with 20a-1p circuit breakers we and now installing new furniture partitions with multi-wire branch circuits, the problem is that the current manufacturers rep. (Eaton) informed me that Westinghouse never made handle ties for their breakers so replacement or OEM parts are unavailable. Is there any other manufacturer that makes handle ties for all types of breaker manufacturers? Thanks in advance..
Handle Ties
- Thread starter Mike01
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LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I would try the BR handle-ties first, but if they don't fit, replace the existing breakers with BR's.
ties
ties
Since the handle ties are to indicate a MWBC but not used for a "commom trip" would it be acceptable to utilize a zip tie to indicated the breakers. also the squared d device seems to work as there are "holes" in the breakers but is it acceptable to put multiple brekaer ties on a single breaker? in order to make a single handle the middle breaker would have a handle tie extending in each direction it appears it will fit does anyone have any experience with these?
ties
Since the handle ties are to indicate a MWBC but not used for a "commom trip" would it be acceptable to utilize a zip tie to indicated the breakers. also the squared d device seems to work as there are "holes" in the breakers but is it acceptable to put multiple brekaer ties on a single breaker? in order to make a single handle the middle breaker would have a handle tie extending in each direction it appears it will fit does anyone have any experience with these?
glene77is
Senior Member
- Location
- Memphis, TN
no-ties avaliable??
no-ties avaliable??
Situation; multi-wire branch circuit 4-1P circuit breakers are utilized no manufacturer makes a product to tie 4-handles together for indication (note these do are not required to provide a common trip). So how is this handled if the contractor proposed utilizing a zip tie to accomplish this for indication would this be acceptable, I cannot find anywhere in the code where this is not acceptable just wanted to get some other opinions.
no-ties avaliable??
Situation; multi-wire branch circuit 4-1P circuit breakers are utilized no manufacturer makes a product to tie 4-handles together for indication (note these do are not required to provide a common trip). So how is this handled if the contractor proposed utilizing a zip tie to accomplish this for indication would this be acceptable, I cannot find anywhere in the code where this is not acceptable just wanted to get some other opinions.
Why Not?
Why Not?
What says it cannot be done? According to the manufacturer the handle ties are to connect to single pole breakers to one (however the breakers still will trip independently) and they also will make a 2-pole for three 1P positions but nothing more, when asked about multiple circuit breakers the indicated that they do not make such a device / handle? So how would you indicate the breakers serve a multi-wire branch circuit if the manufacturer does not provide a handle tie or ties for multiple breakers, beyond three? The grouping or tying of multiple handles still provides individual breakers to trip and does not create a common trip this is stated in the manufacturers literature so if the grouping is for the purpose of indicating a MWBC to a service contractor what?s the difference of how you tie the handles together to indicate this as long as it is done in a neat manor with a secure device / fitting / strap? Any other recommendations? I tried searching for some but cannot come up with any.
Why Not?
What says it cannot be done? According to the manufacturer the handle ties are to connect to single pole breakers to one (however the breakers still will trip independently) and they also will make a 2-pole for three 1P positions but nothing more, when asked about multiple circuit breakers the indicated that they do not make such a device / handle? So how would you indicate the breakers serve a multi-wire branch circuit if the manufacturer does not provide a handle tie or ties for multiple breakers, beyond three? The grouping or tying of multiple handles still provides individual breakers to trip and does not create a common trip this is stated in the manufacturers literature so if the grouping is for the purpose of indicating a MWBC to a service contractor what?s the difference of how you tie the handles together to indicate this as long as it is done in a neat manor with a secure device / fitting / strap? Any other recommendations? I tried searching for some but cannot come up with any.
MIEngineer
Member
- Location
- Michigan
If I'm understanding you correctly you have 4 circuits entering the furniture. Isn't there two neutrals within the maufactured furniture (A,B,C,N1,A,N2,G)?
Therefore you would have one MWBC and one dedicated ciruit.
Therefore you would have one MWBC and one dedicated ciruit.
Handle ties are designed to turn off all the breakers they are attached to. Zip ties will not do that. Handle ties are required if you're not using common-trip (multi-pole) breakers. They are required so if you turn off one pole, you turn them all off. You are not simply being requested to 'indicate' which breakers are used on MWBCs.
Why would you ever need to tie 4 or more poles together?
Independant trip / Common trip
Independant trip / Common trip
?NOTE: Circuit breaker handle tie converts any two adjacent single pole circuit breakers to an independent trip two pole circuit breaker. Handle tie permits the use of two single pole circuit breakers for individual trip protection on 3-wire circuits.? This is from the manufacturers instructions with the handle ties. The handle ties do not create a common trip each breaker still trips independently, if one breaker trips the other will not. The NEC states 605.7 ?Multiwire branch circuits supplying power to permanently connected freestanding partitions shall be provided with a means to disconnect simultaneously all ungrounded conductors at the panelboard where the branch circuits originate.
Independant trip / Common trip
?NOTE: Circuit breaker handle tie converts any two adjacent single pole circuit breakers to an independent trip two pole circuit breaker. Handle tie permits the use of two single pole circuit breakers for individual trip protection on 3-wire circuits.? This is from the manufacturers instructions with the handle ties. The handle ties do not create a common trip each breaker still trips independently, if one breaker trips the other will not. The NEC states 605.7 ?Multiwire branch circuits supplying power to permanently connected freestanding partitions shall be provided with a means to disconnect simultaneously all ungrounded conductors at the panelboard where the branch circuits originate.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
It would be more accurate to say that a handle tie might not trip the other pole(s); most I've seen are stiff enough that they will. But, it's not required.
One possibility would be to feed them through a sub-panel. You'd have to claim that the feeder breaker is the disconnect, and the sub houses supplementary breakers.
Tripping a breaker and turning it off (opeing it) are two different things.
When handle ties are installed, one circuit can TRIP off and the balance is not affected, but all poles will OPEN when one is OPENED.
Why would this EVER be necessary? Code says that all handle of a MWBC will be tied together. That makes a maximum of 3 breakers tied together, unless you have invented a new 4-phase panelboard. You could have 3 circuits sharing one N. and one circuit with a dedicated N. or 2 circuits per N. Either way, you would not need to tie more than 3 breakers together.
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