Hard piped EMT house 210.12 AFCI

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CustomElectricLLC

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Picked up a job for a local GC that begged me to do it Highland Park TX northern Dallas area. Anyhow whole thing is hard piped in emt, from the panel all the way to the recessed lights. Everything. Its a nightmare. Fast forward to now with AFCI requirements in full swing in inspector even told me "make sure every receptacle and light outlet you add will be AFCI protected". That area has since repealed requirements of conduit only and now allows NM cable wiring. All the circuits are shared neutrals of course and panel is jam packed GE THQL style twin break panel. I am out of ideas to protect 5 outlets and some cans (on three diff circuits). Was hoping that 210.12 A (5) would somehow cut me a break and let me install the receptacle style device at the first outlet I pull power from but it seems the verbiage says otherwise. How do y'all interpret the line "at the first outlet to provide protection for the remaining portion of the branch circuit." Is that first outlet of the existing branch circuit or the first outlet I install "to provide protection to the remaining portion of the branch circuit"

210.12 A (5)
If metal raceway, metal wireways, metal auxiliary gutters, or Type MC, or Type AC cable meeting the applicable requirements of 250.118, with metal boxes, metal conduit bodies, and metal enclosures are installed for the portion of the branch circuit between the branch-circuit overcurrent device and the first outlet, it shall be permitted to install a listed outlet branch-circuit-type AFCI at the first outlet to provide protection for the remaining portion of the branch circuit.

Any feedback is appreciated, gotta tackle this job tomorrow
 
Do you really need all those circuits? On lightly loaded circuits, they can be combined from two circuits to one, then an afci breaker can be used IF you can come up with enough space. Remember, your not restricted on the number of receptacles on one circuit in residential. Probably overcircuited in a lot of areas, especially with the advent of LED lighting.
 
hillbilly1 said:
Do you really need all those circuits? On lightly loaded circuits, they can be combined from two circuits to one, then an afci breaker can be used IF you can come up with enough space. Remember, your not restricted on the number of receptacles on one circuit in residential. Probably overcircuited in a lot of areas, especially with the advent of LED lighting.
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Yes this is what I am trying to sell to the GC tomorrow morning, combined circuits. Otherwise it'll be a change order. I agree its over circuited, especially with all LED lighting nowadays
 
Ended up combing circuits to fit AFCI into panel. Got blindsided by few things. Don't always have to deal with remodels in older homes, so live and learn. Thanks for the feedback
 
Tulsa Electrician said:
It always good to have an exclusion or two in your estimates.
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Agreed, I have plenty of exclusions but not for this. So Im now working on what. It is a little challenging to write one that would protect you but also not seem in a way taking responsibility off of me as a professional. Of course when I go do a job walk I can't open up every outlet and fixture to verify wiring types etc. What does this look like to y'all?

"- Unforeseen wiring systems; in the event unforeseen and or uncommon wiring is found (splices for other circuits in fixture outlets, recessed lights, receptacle outlet boxes), circuits passing through boxes etc that require extensive work to repair, modify, delete or relocate are not covered by scope declared in this document (unless otherwise stated in contract). Extra charges will incur for work of such issues"
 
So if you have emt to the first outlet then you can install an afci at the first outlet or are you saying they don't allow that
 
Dennis Alwon said:
So if you have emt to the first outlet then you can install an afci at the first outlet or are you saying they don't allow that
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Its a shared neutral circuit. But I was able to to combine circuits of shared neutrals and install arc faults. But l def learned my lessons. For some reason I underestimated the AFCI issues I would have to deal with. I also had to add sconce here a can there, a pendant here... Well there was like 4-5 circuits I would've "modified" and need AFCI protection on all 5. I ended up grabbing power for 1 of the 2 AFCI circuits I put in and running them to the existing switch boxes to feed those fixtures and keep it on an AFCI circuit. More holes were cut to fish etc. I was a nightmare to say the least.
 
You can still use afci receptacles with a shared neutral. You would pigtail the line side neutral to the next outlet and then install the afci receptacle
 
Dennis Alwon said:
You can still use afci receptacles with a shared neutral. You would pigtail the line side neutral to the next outlet and then install the afci receptacle
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Yes, but most likely, being in conduit, the multi wire circuit would have continued on, instead of being just a home run, then splitting off unlike what would have been done with nmb. Don’t know if this is the case with the op’s situation.
 
1 AFCI outlet at first opening per 300.13(B), on standard breaker with handle ties, is possible if 1 of 2 MWBC legs remains unmolested, no new outlets or plug replacements.

Otherwise 210.12(A)5 allows the first opening converted to a double-gang box, for 2 AFCI outlets sharing the same line-side neutral per 300.13(B).
 
Dennis Alwon said:
You can still use afci receptacles with a shared neutral. You would pigtail the line side neutral to the next outlet and then install the afci receptacle
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What purpose would it serve if it can only
Protect at that location. 210.12 D requires bringing the entire circuit up to code and protected by AFCI device. Leviton devices I’ve used clearly state the load side neutral needs to be connected. I guess something I can try in the future.
 

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ramsy said:
1 AFCI outlet at first opening per 300.13(B), on standard breaker with handle ties, is possible if 1 of 2 MWBC legs remains unmolested, no new outlets or plug replacements.

Otherwise 210.12(A)5 allows the first opening converted to a double-gang box, for 2 AFCI outlets sharing the same line-side neutral per 300.13(B).
Click to expand...
If this is something you’ve done thats great, but in theory I don’t see how that would work. See my post above. All I know is, AFCI devices are a pain in the arse! GE AFCI breakers actually don’t need a neutral on a MWBC but it needs to be a MOD3 type( that doesn’t have an arc sensing CT on the neutral). In my situation it was a GE panel with 1/2 twins ALL COMPLETELY twined out. So I had to come one 4 twin circuits to make room for 2 AFCI. That’s what my solution was
 
I use GE 1P AFCI's, if space is available. Thanks for explaining Mod-3. I was accustomed to rewiring half-hots to separate 15A from 20A neutrals.

If no space is available, existing MWBC first openings may have a 2-gang box at laundry, under kitchen sink, or bathroom outlets, with lots of variations.

Where outlets need an AFCI switch, Leviton makes this one:

 
CustomElectricLLC said:
If this is something you’ve done thats great, but in theory I don’t see how that would work. See my post above. All I know is, AFCI devices are a pain in the arse! GE AFCI breakers actually don’t need a neutral on a MWBC but it needs to be a MOD3 type( that doesn’t have an arc sensing CT on the neutral). In my situation it was a GE panel with 1/2 twins ALL COMPLETELY twined out. So I had to come one 4 twin circuits to make room for 2 AFCI. That’s what my solution was
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The ge afci does need a neutral but only to one breaker not both. Unless they revamped them that is how it was...

AFCI 2 SP.jpg
 
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