Having tough time with estimate

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tonyou812

tonyou812

Senior Member
Location
North New Jersey
I have been doing about 90 percent resi in the past year and I finally have some commercial work comming but I am having a tough time with it for some reason.
The job is to add 6 IG recepts for a computer system and componets for a Dinner's ordering system. Along with that I need to run 9 runs of cat 5 e and install a patch panel for the cat 5 and punch it down.
I plan on doing this work in 1/2 inch emt for the outlets. The pipes will basically be run in the basement which is about 10 feet to the ceiling and I think about 250 feet of pipe should do it. From the basement I have to go through a concrete floor to the designated spots in the restaurant. The outlets will be for the various server stations and kitchen printer for the orders.
I plan on zip tieing the cat 5 to the pipes in the basement and using 1/2 inch emt to stub them up through the floor. All the cat5s go back to a network switch that will be in the basement office. I will be putting male cat 5 connectors on one end to plug into the various machines and on the other end they will be punched down into the patch panel.
The work will have to be done at night because the dinner never closes and I dont feel like working around customers and workers. I think it will be easier for me anyway to work with less people around.
I pretty much have the job but I dont want to short change myself. I plan on putting all the stuff on one circut and would like to try to upsell them a ups for the circut but Im not sure if Micros systems will be supplying one. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
Occupation
E
tonyou812 said:
I have been doing about 90 percent resi in the past year and I finally have some commercial work comming but I am having a tough time with it for some reason.
The job is to add 6 IG recepts for a computer system and componets for a Dinner's ordering system. Along with that I need to run 9 runs of cat 5 e and install a patch panel for the cat 5 and punch it down.
I plan on doing this work in 1/2 inch emt for the outlets. The pipes will basically be run in the basement which is about 10 feet to the ceiling and I think about 250 feet of pipe should do it. From the basement I have to go through a concrete floor to the designated spots in the restaurant. The outlets will be for the various server stations and kitchen printer for the orders.
I plan on zip tieing the cat 5 to the pipes in the basement and using 1/2 inch emt to stub them up through the floor. All the cat5s go back to a network switch that will be in the basement office. I will be putting male cat 5 connectors on one end to plug into the various machines and on the other end they will be punched down into the patch panel.
The work will have to be done at night because the dinner never closes and I dont feel like working around customers and workers. I think it will be easier for me anyway to work with less people around.
I pretty much have the job but I dont want to short change myself. I plan on putting all the stuff on one circut and would like to try to upsell them a ups for the circut but Im not sure if Micros systems will be supplying one. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

i'd call it 28 hours labor, plus your material with markup. it shouldn't take
that long, but that's a safe number. wouldn't want you to lose so much
money you can't afford to post here anymore.....)

but, a few questions....

you say IG plugs, not dedicated ground, correct?
(you can use one common ground wire for all devices, correct?)

is the concrete floor post tensioned?
the time to find out is NOT at 11 pm, when you nick a cable.

let us know how long it takes..... :D
 
tonyou812

tonyou812

Senior Member
Location
North New Jersey
Do alot of you fellas have a sort of set charge for work being done in emt or what? I like to give set prices so I think the fact that the work is in emt is throwing me off a bit. And Im not really sure about what to charge for the data work. What would you charge for a 12 port puch down?
 
rexowner

rexowner

Senior Member
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrician
tonyou812 said:
I will be putting male cat 5 connectors on one end to plug into the various machines and on the other end they will be punched down into the patch panel.
Click to expand...

Tony,
I may be veering off from the main point of your post,
but having the run be male at one end and punched down
(female connector to the switch or router) is a hybrid
between building wiring and a patch cord. The male
end may be subject to physical damage in a restaurant
environment. It would be more typical to have a
female connector as part of the building.

It would be more EIA/TIA standard to terminate both
ends of the building wiring in female connectors, i.e.
patch panel at the router end and faceplate/whatever
at the cash register end, and use standard (male) patch
cables to connect the equipment.

HTH.
 
W

wireguru

Senior Member
dont put male plugs on the ends of the cat5. Punch the cables down onto CAT5E keystone jacks and put them in surface mount jacks or wallplates.

micros will most likely put a little UPS at each terminal. See if you can put in one larger UPS for the circuits and get the owner to take the micros ones off the order.

We shaved low 5 figures off a POS bid by taking their UPSs, network switches, etc off. The POS companies really mark that stuff up.
 
tonyou812

tonyou812

Senior Member
Location
North New Jersey
Yea there IG recepts. Thats what the folks at Micro system specs. If you ask me It would make a lot more sense to install TVSS outlets but what do I know. 26 hours seems about right. I feel like I am in the ball park but I just dont want to be low, you know what I mean? I think the system is about 24000 for the programs and equipment. I had no idea that stuff was so expensive.
 
tonyou812

tonyou812

Senior Member
Location
North New Jersey
rexowner said:
Tony,
I may be veering off from the main point of your post,
but having the run be male at one end and punched down
(female connector to the switch or router) is a hybrid
between building wiring and a patch cord. The male
end may be subject to physical damage in a restaurant
environment. It would be more typical to have a
female connector as part of the building.

It would be more EIA/TIA standard to terminate both
ends of the building wiring in female connectors, i.e.
patch panel at the router end and faceplate/whatever
at the cash register end, and use standard (male) patch
cables to connect the equipment.

HTH.
Click to expand...

interesting, that was my first inclination. Then thats what ill do.
 
A

Aledrell

Senior Member
What I would do

What I would do

Since it is a small job, take all your parts cost and mark up about 25 percent. Take the number of man hours it will take you for the outlets and charge $75 per hour if after hours work. Then, take the amount of man hours for low voltage and charge $95 an hour because the disguisting truth is LV work is at higher price than electrical. If you aren't busy separate your qoute into two categories one for LV and one for the outlets, then offer a 10% discount for having all items completed at same time, customers love this. Good Luck.
 
bradleyelectric

bradleyelectric

Senior Member
Location
forest hill, md
Aledrell said:
Since it is a small job, take all your parts cost and mark up about 25 percent. Take the number of man hours it will take you for the outlets and charge $75 per hour if after hours work. Then, take the amount of man hours for low voltage and charge $95 an hour because the disguisting truth is LV work is at higher price than electrical. If you aren't busy separate your qoute into two categories one for LV and one for the outlets, then offer a 10% discount for having all items completed at same time, customers love this. Good Luck.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Tony knows his rates. I'm thinking he was looking for help as to how he should labor the EMT. There is really no reason why he should lower his rates for night work or further discount it at the end. He already said he has the job he's just not looking to short himself.
 
S

shockin

Senior Member
rexowner said:
It would be more EIA/TIA standard to terminate both
ends of the building wiring in female connectors, i.e.
patch panel at the router end and faceplate/whatever
at the cash register end, and use standard (male) patch
cables to connect the equipment.

HTH.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I would do it as Tony had originally planned. Male end at the POS and patch panel in the managers office. I've done a number POS systems this way without problems. I don't see what you gain by adding another termination point to transition from female plate to male patch cord. Have you seen how dirty kitchens get, this it just another place where something can go wrong. Just install the cable and leave 3 or 4 nice coils when you get where you're going. It's also cheeaper. Use black or grey Cat5e so it's less noticeable.

The IG's are way overrated it this application but that's another topic.
 
Fulthrotl

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Location
HB, CA (19 Hrs. 22 Min. from Winged Horses)
Occupation
E
rexowner said:
It would be more EIA/TIA standard to terminate both
ends of the building wiring in female connectors, i.e.
patch panel at the router end and faceplate/whatever
at the cash register end, and use standard (male) patch
cables to connect the equipment.
Click to expand...

the man's correct, i believe. if you actually had to certify
the install as category 5, it would need to be done this way.
bends on cable are also a consideration in cat 5 certification.
most of these POS systems use about 10% of the speed
capability of a cat 5 cable, they just aren't that high a
bandwidth application. the only one i've done much with
was squirrel, and the main thing i remember about that
install was that the technician (female) had high bandwith,
and excellent form, fit, and function. and a superbly molded
case.:D

maybe your job will get a squirrel girl as well. you can only hope.
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
The POS systems I've wired for were supplied with individual UPS's at each terminal, and were supplied by the POS people, so filtering shouldn't be your concern.

Yes, IG receptacles and wiring methods were required. I used 12/3 MC, used the green as the IG conductor, and stripped the red wire for use as the main EGC.

If you're using EMT, use a green for the IG and the conduit as the circuit EGC. Make sure every receptacle is an IG, and keep the green insulated as if it's a hot.
 
P

Pullnwire

Senior Member
Location
Surrounded by Oranges
Occupation
Electrician, Business Owner, SME and Trade Instructor
And Im not really sure about what to charge for the data work. What would you charge for a 12 port puch down?[/QUOTE said:
I usually charge 110 bucks a network drop, and you can get a standalone patchpanel for 40$ around here
Click to expand...
 
tonyou812

tonyou812

Senior Member
Location
North New Jersey
Thanks a lot guys I really appreciate all the input. But now I think im up in the air about whether to male or female the other end. I like the idea of less is more. But I also like the female port because it has a more finished look and besides I can charge more :) I plan on doing it in pipe because the everything else is in pipe and I can charge more :)....:wink:..... and I rarely get to work with pipe nowadays.
 
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