I am an Inside Journeyman Wireman, or used to be until my folks called me back to the classroom. Now I teach apprentices for a 5 year program and see that they top out; or don't.
I have experience in troubleshooting, worked at power plants, nukes, etc. I consider myself a reasonably intelligent individual.
My back patio GFCI stopped working suddenly. I need this receptacle because I have a pellet smoker, and make bacon, baby backs, briskets and beef back ribs. I NEED this receptacle!
No event I can think of triggered this. The house is new construction, 5 years old.
At the panel a breaker marked "patio area." Seems to be the feed. When off, neither the kitchen lights or receptacles, the lights above the back patio (hi-hats in stucco) outdoors, nor the receptacle in question work. This makes sense, as the kitchen is adjacent to the outdoor patio area. Again when the breaker is off, nothing in this paragraph is energized. The very first thing I did was confirm that all breakers are "ON," and I even tested between hot and neutral for every breaker in my 200A panel. Most every non-double-pole breaker is either GFCI or AFCI, so they each have a hot and neutral screw. Every last breaker gives 120 phase to neutral, and phase to ground. NO BREAKER IN THE PANEL IS TRIPPED OR OFF.
So: did my indoor due-diligence first. The 2-gang box that feeds the patio lights, kitchen lights and receptacles, and a non-used fan box outside above the patio, contains the only wire that gives 120 with "patio area" breaker on, and zero when the breaker is off.
So when the "patio area" breaker is on, everything works, BUT not the patio area receptacle. (Kitchen lights, kitchen receptacles, and outdoor patio lights). So up into the attic I go. I had my wife tug on the "patio area" romex inside the panel and I identified that romex in the attic all the way down to the back of my house, putting a duct tape flag every 5 or so feet so I can see it from the next point with all that batt insulation. It seems to descend ONLY to the outdoor patio receptacle, and not anywhere else, though there is a possibility that after it descends it branches off to the 2-gang box mentioned above, but with the 1/4" width of that chase, I doubt it. That's the first part that doesn't make much sense.
In the attic, a contactless tester on the romex coming off the breaker marked "Patio area" is live above the panel, (I pulled to romex far from the other wires), but it's dead 40' away where it descends and disappears. OK, so maybe a staple that pierced the romex a bit had some time to develop rust/corrosion to short together a hot and a neutral. I've seen this before, but in my house, no breaker trips! All loads EXCEPT the patio receptacle work just fine, and when that breaker is turned off, and the kitchen lights and receptacles and patio lights do not work, and everything rings out properly. Again, when it's on, everything works fine. ?????? Except the patio receptacle.
I'm trying best to keep this as short as possible. I traced with continuity down in the air-conditioned portion of the house; (hot to neutral, and neutral to ground) every load with the breaker off coming from the "home run" box. I also established with no doubt that there are no shorts anywhere. The kitchen switch is good, all receptacles are good, the lights outside and kitchen lights are good, all work fine when that "patio area" breaker is on, and it all doesn't work when it's off. I plugged an extension cord into the receptacle outside and used the female end inside to check for continuity. There is none.
I assumed (at this point I'm spitballing) it might be a break in the wiring in the very narrow chase between the outside stucco and inside drywall descending to the receptacle in question (from attic to ground level).
After testing no voltage present; I remove the outside receptacle and put the hot and neutral under a wirenut. I determ the hot and neutral off the "patio area" breaker, but get no ring. OK. I wirenut the hot and neutral just determ'd in the panel, and check for continuity between the hot and neutral wire at the receptacle outside. No ringy.
I put test leads inside all receptacles that don't work, and the hot and neutral to every switch leg from the box I'm calling the home run box, and with the hot and neutral bugged together in the main panel, no ringy anywhere. At this point I'm considering becoming a doctor. For reasons I don't have to explain, it just doesn't make sense.
Anyways, figured I'd bounce this off some JWs, and $10 to anyone who tells me what I'm missing!
Thanks for reading. Sorry about the lengthiness.
I have experience in troubleshooting, worked at power plants, nukes, etc. I consider myself a reasonably intelligent individual.
My back patio GFCI stopped working suddenly. I need this receptacle because I have a pellet smoker, and make bacon, baby backs, briskets and beef back ribs. I NEED this receptacle!
No event I can think of triggered this. The house is new construction, 5 years old.
At the panel a breaker marked "patio area." Seems to be the feed. When off, neither the kitchen lights or receptacles, the lights above the back patio (hi-hats in stucco) outdoors, nor the receptacle in question work. This makes sense, as the kitchen is adjacent to the outdoor patio area. Again when the breaker is off, nothing in this paragraph is energized. The very first thing I did was confirm that all breakers are "ON," and I even tested between hot and neutral for every breaker in my 200A panel. Most every non-double-pole breaker is either GFCI or AFCI, so they each have a hot and neutral screw. Every last breaker gives 120 phase to neutral, and phase to ground. NO BREAKER IN THE PANEL IS TRIPPED OR OFF.
So: did my indoor due-diligence first. The 2-gang box that feeds the patio lights, kitchen lights and receptacles, and a non-used fan box outside above the patio, contains the only wire that gives 120 with "patio area" breaker on, and zero when the breaker is off.
So when the "patio area" breaker is on, everything works, BUT not the patio area receptacle. (Kitchen lights, kitchen receptacles, and outdoor patio lights). So up into the attic I go. I had my wife tug on the "patio area" romex inside the panel and I identified that romex in the attic all the way down to the back of my house, putting a duct tape flag every 5 or so feet so I can see it from the next point with all that batt insulation. It seems to descend ONLY to the outdoor patio receptacle, and not anywhere else, though there is a possibility that after it descends it branches off to the 2-gang box mentioned above, but with the 1/4" width of that chase, I doubt it. That's the first part that doesn't make much sense.
In the attic, a contactless tester on the romex coming off the breaker marked "Patio area" is live above the panel, (I pulled to romex far from the other wires), but it's dead 40' away where it descends and disappears. OK, so maybe a staple that pierced the romex a bit had some time to develop rust/corrosion to short together a hot and a neutral. I've seen this before, but in my house, no breaker trips! All loads EXCEPT the patio receptacle work just fine, and when that breaker is turned off, and the kitchen lights and receptacles and patio lights do not work, and everything rings out properly. Again, when it's on, everything works fine. ?????? Except the patio receptacle.
I'm trying best to keep this as short as possible. I traced with continuity down in the air-conditioned portion of the house; (hot to neutral, and neutral to ground) every load with the breaker off coming from the "home run" box. I also established with no doubt that there are no shorts anywhere. The kitchen switch is good, all receptacles are good, the lights outside and kitchen lights are good, all work fine when that "patio area" breaker is on, and it all doesn't work when it's off. I plugged an extension cord into the receptacle outside and used the female end inside to check for continuity. There is none.
I assumed (at this point I'm spitballing) it might be a break in the wiring in the very narrow chase between the outside stucco and inside drywall descending to the receptacle in question (from attic to ground level).
After testing no voltage present; I remove the outside receptacle and put the hot and neutral under a wirenut. I determ the hot and neutral off the "patio area" breaker, but get no ring. OK. I wirenut the hot and neutral just determ'd in the panel, and check for continuity between the hot and neutral wire at the receptacle outside. No ringy.
I put test leads inside all receptacles that don't work, and the hot and neutral to every switch leg from the box I'm calling the home run box, and with the hot and neutral bugged together in the main panel, no ringy anywhere. At this point I'm considering becoming a doctor. For reasons I don't have to explain, it just doesn't make sense.
Anyways, figured I'd bounce this off some JWs, and $10 to anyone who tells me what I'm missing!
Thanks for reading. Sorry about the lengthiness.
