Help! Boss's Ratty Work

big john · Oct 26, 2003

A buddy of mine referred me to one of these handy-man types for some side-work. The handy-man has some decent all around knowledge but his only formal training is as a boiler tech. He seems to have some basic electrical knowledge (can wire 4-way switches; knows that the EGC isn't just a pesky "extra wire") but he's cheap, and that cheapness leads to some really shoddy work, which puts me in a place I don't want to be in.

Example:

Splicing a circuit in an old ungrounded octagonal box. I went to put in the ground screw, but for some reason it wouldn't start in the hole. I asked the guy if he had a tapping tool so I could re-thread the hole and his reply is: "Just put it under a pan-head [wood screw]."

I need an anti-short bushing for some AC and we're fresh out.
"I don't want to stop the whole job for one bushing, use electrical tape!"

I feel like I do better electrical work than this handy-man any day of the week, so I'd much rather do it myself. But, doing it myself means that I'm might be forced to do poorer-than-average work because I don't have the tools/materials to do it right.

I haven't seen him do anything that is drastically unsafe, yet, but I figure it's only a matter of time... What can I do?

HELP!

-John

P.S.: I'm going to replace the old octagonal with a 1900 box so I can properly ground the thing.
And, by god, I searched around until I found an anti-short bushing to use instead of tape.

hbiss · Oct 26, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

Boss or no boss, YOU are the electrician and he is not! Have a talk with him and set things straight. If he won't allow you to do your work safely and properly as you know how, do yourself a favor and quit. The poor workmanship will be a reflection on you and if anything serious should happen you certainly don't want to be involved with the jerk.

ryan_618 · Oct 26, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

Who's license is on the line?

hbiss · Oct 26, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

Oh, I don't understand what you mean by But, doing it myself means that I'm might be forced to do poorer-than-average work because I don't have the tools/materials to do it right.

Are you saying that if you did work on your own you don't have your own tools or can't get materials?

iwire · Oct 26, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

Guys John is an Electrical Apprentice.

He does not yet have his license.

That said I would be glad to have him work with me, as he has something much more important IMO.

Pride in his work

John IMO you have two choices, do it his way or move on.

Only you know what you can afford to do.

Which is worse to you the anguish of doing poor work or the loss of revenue.

Good luck whatever your choice and do not let this guy corrupt your good attitude.

[ October 26, 2003, 03:53 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]

iwire · Oct 26, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

John just so you know you are not alone, I got fired and left in the city 20-25 miles from home because I would not do things I knew then as an apprentice where wrong.

Bob

pierre · Oct 26, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

John
I also quit a job with a contractor asking for unscprupulous work

I survived and so did my ex

and daughter.

Pierre

drg · Oct 26, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

John,

I am rotated between several work crews as a beginner electrican and boy do I ever have to adjust to doing things different,

Learning how to work with a "schlock" is probaly the hardest thing one can do.

If it was a side job "just keep doing what you need to do", and if he fires you so what !!

Johnhatesworkingwithschlocks

I did not edit anything , I just wanted to see how it works.
Johnnowknowshowtoedit

[ October 26, 2003, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: drg ]

Guest · Oct 26, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

Ask him if he will put you in charge of quality control. When he tells you to do something you know is not code is he at all open minded? If you told him the sheet metal screw is not code would he listen? Let him know that you are willing to look things up in the NEC and help him improve his game. Tell him that if you're not sure about something you will find the answer so it can be done right. He may be uninformed, but willing to accommodate your knowledge of the code. Ask him point blank before you burn the bridge. You might be able to make yourself indispensable to him by getting yourself in charge of quality control and in charge of making sure things are NEC compliant. You might hint at the liability issue too. You can help save him from a lawsuit resulting from any damages incurred from improper work. It's worth a shot. Hit him right between the eyes and see how he reacts. Good luck!

drg · Oct 26, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

Wayne, if you read over what John originally posted about the guy, with the green grounding screw and use of electrical tape you already should have figured out what this guys whole game is.

The guy is a handyman and not a tradesman.

Blathering on with this handyman would be not worthwhile in my opinion and probaly just cause a attitude with the handyfellow.

Johnunderstandsjohnssituation

Guest · Oct 26, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

John,
Points well taken. I agree, it may be a lost cause, but I would give it one final bump before John burns the bridge with handyboss. John should stand firm on doing things to code. I'm just thinking there may be a chance that handyboss doesn't know about the NEC code barring the use of sheet metal screws for ground keepers. He probably knows better about the red anti-short bushing.

Don't lump handyboss on the slag heap of hopeless handymen yet. There may be hope for him. He hired John. That speaks well in itself

Also, if he's doing jobs under a certain dollar amount there may be no licensing requirement in his state.

The violations mentioned are not terribly egrigious, and hopefully he is openminded about improving his game. John can be the craftsman & quality control point man. That's all.

../Wayne C.

[ October 26, 2003, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]

hurk27 · Oct 26, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

If you have a printer print this artical and tell your boss that you have to go by the code or this is what could happen!

Sorry joe but it was the only good example I could think of.

big john · Oct 26, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

Thank you guys for your replies, I think I'm gonna try the education approach, see if I can't change his ways. If not, then I guess I'll walk. I'm just frustrated. We're working in a house that's already full of ridiculously backwards work from installations past:

Two 10x10x4 inch J-boxes that hold upwards of forty circuits, only about five of which are identified.

A 12 by 12 foot kitchen with sixteen GFCI duplex receptacles all on dedicated circuits.

Abandon cable and J-boxes everywhere.

An AFCI breaker with three bedroom circuits on it [read as: Three conductors under one screw.]

And on top of that I have to deal with a guy who's new installation practices involve gluing 1900 boxes to masonry walls because he doesn't want to waste the plastic anchors.

I haven't walked yet because I have the skills to make a lot of this nonsense right and ensure that new stuff is done properly. I feel a responsibility to see that the work is done correctly, especially since I know that when I leave, all bets are off.

Ugh. Thanks again, gentlemen.

-John

[ October 26, 2003, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: big john ]

drg · Oct 26, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

That is a good impact message , but some folk would still try to rationalize their own reasons for short cutting and disregard this .
While this message will make any normal person think, realize that there are a lot of people out there that are not normal.
If you are dealing with the latter of the 2 you better be able to make desicions for yourself, and if that means getting fired or walking off a job so be it, you probaly fighting the whole thing by being there in the first place.

Johnagreeswiththemessagepoint
I wrote this in reply to the electrican get 5 years sentence post!!

[ October 26, 2003, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: drg ]

brian john · Oct 27, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

Big John:

If you'd like to work for a quality company, contact me by private email and I can put you in touch with several electrical contractors that would appreciate your concern and williness.

Brian John

brian john · Oct 27, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

Big JOhn:

I'm located in NOVA, as I believe you are.

rickcham · Oct 27, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

Big John

I think you now see the difference between the "handyman" and a true "craftsman" you keep your mind set to do things corectly and you will go far in the trades!!
Wish you the best of luck with this one.

Rick

larryl · Dec 6, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

hey big john
congrats on your work ethic!!!this guy isn't gonna change,especially for you,its his nature not to care,
i'm a seasoned 20 year man(on my own in the south boston erea) and its great to here from a guy that cares,,
you've probably dumped this bum already,by the time you read this,,and i'm sure you feel better about yourself for doing so,
sounds like your a good guy with alot of potential,,
GET ANOTHER JOB,,and stay in the field,,your gonna do great .the industry needs people like you!!look in the paper or go on line,,
put your name up at the your supply house,, letting people know your looking for work,,believe me ,,you're gonna work for alot of people throughout your carrier,,
GOOD LUCK,,

larryl · Dec 6, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

hey big john
congrats on your work ethic!!!this guy isn't gonna change,especially for you,its his nature not to care,
i'm a seasoned 20 year man(on my own in the south boston erea) and its great to here from a guy that cares,,
you've probably dumped this bum already,by the time you read this,,and i'm sure you feel better about yourself for doing so,
sounds like your a good guy with alot of potential,,
GET ANOTHER JOB,,and stay in the field,,your gonna do great .the industry needs people like you!!look in the paper or go on line,,
put your name up at the your supply house,, letting people know your looking for work,,believe me ,,you're gonna work for alot of people throughout your carrier,,
GOOD LUCK,,

pamster00 · Dec 9, 2003

Re: Help! Boss's Ratty Work

I've got some questions.

First the background. I've got a UPS to install in a server room at work. It needs a 20A receptacle and except for one 30A singleton with a larger UPS plugged into it, everything is 15A dual receptacles. I showed the facility manager what I needed and asked for a 20A circuit to be installed. He stepped out of the room briefly, then returned and said that several orange 15A receptacles were on 20A circuits and he'd have his guy change some of the receptacles.

My first question is would a responsible operator have installed 20A service without placing 20A receptacles?

I later returned to the room and found that two of the 15A receptacles had been changed for 20A ones. Each of the 20A receptacles shares a quad JBox with one of the original 15A ones. I do not know what wiring is actually entering the JBoxes.

When I plugged in the UPS and turned it on, I heard a loud click from somewhere. The device's on-battery power alarm did not sound, however, so I know the circuit breaker serving the receptacle did not trip off. I have not added any loads to the UPS yet.

I have reservations about this installation. What else can I look at?

Help! Boss's Ratty Work

Senior Member

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014

Senior Member

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014

Moderator

Moderator

Senior Member

Senior Member

Guest

Guest

Senior Member

Guest

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

New member