Help estimating labor for residential wiring

[leds]

I'm looking to get an idea of roughly how many man hours it would take to wire a 2,000 sq ft house by yourself
Including all the following..
-basic code complient 3bed / 2bath / living / dining / garage / kitchen
2000 sq ft
-box rough in
-panel/meter install
-home runs
-wire rough in
-trim out (including 1 fixture per room)

I've seen a million posts about what people charge per sq ft or per opening and all that but every place is different, and a lot of companies fight for bids to make no money.

Is there a standard labor unit value for each opening? Or an average labor unit value per sq ft? Is it more like day by day? (Day to box, 2 days to wire, 1 day to service, 2 days to trim)??

I'd someone can help that'd be great. I've had great success getting accurate labor units for Remodel installs but nothing for full rewires or new wire homes.

 

[ptonsparky]

New homes are not even on the same planet vs a complete rewire with minimal disruption of existing surfaces.

Tract homes different than custom.

 

[Fred B]

NECA Manual of Labor can help you in a guide for time under a few various installation conditions. (if used right)
The experience level of the person doing the installation can effect the time factor of installations. If you've been doing this work for a while even if you haven't been bidding, you should have an idea what time it take you to perform different tasks, you can just use that to come up with a per opening cost. One option might be time yourself doing the various tasks of an installation thinking about your desired evaluation outcome, then you could use that info the create a per opening or per sq ft charge.

Detailed plans or lack of can definitely effect time estimates accuracy. Around here, residential new construction never has any info related to the electrical installation on the prints. that tends to add a whole other level of complications to trying to estimate or bid.

You're never going to stop the competitions bid that might be a zero or loss for you. You just bid to your profit level desired.

There are other considerations that can effect your installation time factors. How many levels? Wood or metal framing? Wiring methods/materials? Other trades present and competing for work space? Corrections required as a result of other trades work influencing yours. Etc.

You also mention doing the install by yourself. A one man operation generally can add up to 50% to an installation time. Factors that would slow down a one man installation can be during the wire pull, having to make multiple trips to the (pull from location) to untangle a cable or wire that drops during the pull. That may mean up and down ladders multiple times or up and down several flights of stairs multiple time to correct a tangle.

Generally new installations can be quicker than a remodel as demo time and working around things are not an issue.

 

[JohnE]

6-7 days by myself for what you describe in the typical houses that fit your description in my area. But there are 1000 variables. That's my quick answer

 

[kwired]

6-7 days by myself for what you describe in the typical houses that fit your description in my area. But there are 1000 variables. That's my quick answer

about what my answer is also.

 

[James L]

A big part of the problem in figuring a new home bid comes from an unpredictable building process, which comes from unpredictable builders.

I've been trying for 2 years to get pricing nailed down, and that's been a huge road block.

Another is electricians who seem hell bent on being as inefficient and dysfunctional as possible.

2 years ago I helped wire a duplex 3bed/3ba + 2bed/2ba and total 4500 square feet.

It was a buddy of mine who was working cheap, and I tried helping him out. He's slow, and his wiring leaves a lot to be desired.

I figured I could rough in the whole place by myself in 7 days, and finish in 5

Place was 100% ready. With my slow buddy, we took 4½ days to rough it in and I finished it almost by myself in 2 full days and 4 half days and my buddy was there 3 half days.

We took 116 hours together. I had thought 96 by myself.

Last year I wred the same house for the same builder, and it was one of the worst experiences I've ever had. That 1st job was only ready because he couldn't find an electrician after his guy stood him up. The second job, I saw the real deal.

Framing wasn't complete, HVAC wasn't complete, plumbing wasn't complete. After 11 days I had loose ends all over the place and a rough-in punch list about 40 items. I had 136 hours on the rough-in alone.

How can you bid for that kind of dysfunction? You can't

 

[letgomywago]

A big part of the problem in figuring a new home bid comes from an unpredictable building process, which comes from unpredictable builders.

I've been trying for 2 years to get pricing nailed down, and that's been a huge road block.

Another is electricians who seem hell bent on being as inefficient and dysfunctional as possible.

2 years ago I helped wire a duplex 3bed/3ba + 2bed/2ba and total 4500 square feet.

It was a buddy of mine who was working cheap, and I tried helping him out. He's slow, and his wiring leaves a lot to be desired.

I figured I could rough in the whole place by myself in 7 days, and finish in 5

Place was 100% ready. With my slow buddy, we took 4½ days to rough it in and I finished it almost by myself in 2 full days and 4 half days and my buddy was there 3 half days.

We took 116 hours together. I had thought 96 by myself.

Last year I wred the same house for the same builder, and it was one of the worst experiences I've ever had. That 1st job was only ready because he couldn't find an electrician after his guy stood him up. The second job, I saw the real deal.

Framing wasn't complete, HVAC wasn't complete, plumbing wasn't complete. After 11 days I had loose ends all over the place and a rough-in punch list about 40 items. I had 136 hours on the rough-in alone.

How can you bid for that kind of dysfunction? You can't

When I get the "iffy" jobs I try for double because that's what it ends up being. The headaches aren't worth it often so if you loose that project and can work on something else why bother.

 

[Amps]

Back when I wired new track homes for builders, I learned fast from the "iffy" ones. Some never had the stairs in and nailed 2x4's up the studs like a tree house ladder. No windows in during cold weather. Hundreds of small pieces of 2x4, 2x6 all over the floors made it difficult to walk, set a ladder, and layout cables. HVAC guys would show up two days after we started rough wiring and used chain saws to cut holes for ducts. The only builders who knew how to run a job were the custom home ones. I haven't wired a new home in 20 years and do not miss it.

 

[ptonsparky]

I did a small house for a GC that was a gogetter. He had a crew and no one stood around. Showed up for the rough in and he still had a short stubb wall to put up and one to finish bracing. We had one day for rough. GC not on the job. PMO. We finished the walls.

Came back at finish and our nail plates were laying on the floor. Last home I ever did for a GC.

 

[James L]

When I get the "iffy" jobs I try for double because that's what it ends up being. The headaches aren't worth it often so if you loose that project and can work on something else why bother.

That first job I helped on for that builder, I thought he was the bee's knees. Second one I was like wth??

It's like a lot of those guys are perpetually building their very first house. I'm much happier doing remodel work

 

[letgomywago]

That first job I helped on for that builder, I thought he was the bee's knees. Second one I was like wth??

It's like a lot of those guys are perpetually building their very first house. I'm much happier doing remodel work

The few new homes I do a year all I hear is what's going to change on the next one and guess what same issues always happen. Plumbing isn't finished, hvac can't get 5 or 6 things because backorder, and the insulators and drywallers are showing up early asking I'll let them cover my stuff which is obviously a no but they still ask which is odd. Maybe someone has said it's OK idk but it won't fly with me or my inspector.

 

[James L]

The few new homes I do a year all I hear is what's going to change on the next one and guess what same issues always happen. Plumbing isn't finished, hvac can't get 5 or 6 things because backorder, and the insulators and drywallers are showing up early asking I'll let them cover my stuff which is obviously a no but they still ask which is odd. Maybe someone has said it's OK idk but it won't fly with me or my inspector.

Yes, exactly. I've tried with 4 different builders and they seem to have all gone to the same dysfunctional construction management school.

It's like they got their license out of a box of Cracker Jacks

 

[kwired]

The few new homes I do a year all I hear is what's going to change on the next one and guess what same issues always happen. Plumbing isn't finished, hvac can't get 5 or 6 things because backorder, and the insulators and drywallers are showing up early asking I'll let them cover my stuff which is obviously a no but they still ask which is odd. Maybe someone has said it's OK idk but it won't fly with me or my inspector.

What I often run into is the insulator or drywallers have time "right now". If they can't come now they are going to some other project and won't be able to come to my job until some significant time later. Or at least that is what they are pleading. I tell them we can't cover until EI inspects or he has the ability to order removal of covering so that he can inspect. Somehow those insulators/drywallers seem to not get held up for very long anyhow.

I bet many times they have same issue at "the other job" they claimed they would be going to that would not allow them to come to this job.

 

[James L]

What I often run into is the insulator or drywallers have time "right now"

Hear here.

And that kind of scheduling dysfunction makes a new home sometimes take as long as a remodel - but at half the opening price.

 

[kwired]

Hear here.

And that kind of scheduling dysfunction makes a new home sometimes take as long as a remodel - but at half the opening price.

It all probably starts with the job that wasn't ready yet, inspections were holding it up for whatever reason, so then they ask the next job if they can come there, but they aren't ready yet either. They keep going down the list until someone agrees whether they are truly ready or not. Then when they start bringing materials to site the electrician or whoever says we aren't ready yet, yes most the wiring is in place but it still needs inspected

 

[farmantenna]

how many houses have you wired? How many hours can YOU wire it is unknown. How long is it going to take that other electrician is unknown. How long will it take me is known by me. I might be faster or slower than others depending on quality. I was just told recently that it is now taking 4 people to do what an apprentice and I had been doing for the last 2 years after I had to start a different project. They had to raise their prices.
Everyone is different. I had to talk to a carpenter at a house I was not wiring and the electrical rough-in workmanship was incredibly neat. wires were perfectly stapled and bent down the studs. Very neat but I looked at it and said it would take wayyyyy too long to be that neat. When I was at the house we were doing I mentioned the electrical workmanship to the carpenter and his reply was " oh F that guy he's taking forever to wire the place and we had to delay the start of insulation and sheetrock. The owner hired the guy