Help me out

[ceb58]

Call from sister-in-law her boss's recpt. in master bath stopped working. I think bad or tripped GFCI. Simple. Not. House is 5000+ sq ft. Full basement, 1'st and 2nd floor. Recp in basement bath dead, 2 recp in master bath on 1'st floor dead, recp. dead in half bath, outdoor recp. on front dead and recp. in one of the baths on 2nd floor dead. No GFIC to be found. Pull out recp. all wired with 14-2 romex. I found two hidden J-boxes joints good no problem. I have been up and down stairs all day panel boxes in basement.
This house was wired in 96 by one of the largest electrical co. around here. Starts with W. I was thinking back stab wire bad joint cannot find any thing. The only thing I have found that is worrying me is on all of the dead recp. I cannot get continuity between ground and the neutral. (grounds and net. tied together in panel) I have power leaving every wire in the panels. The legend on the panel is vague and I found several that were missed labeled. My thought now is some where the wire has completely broken. Any other ideas?

 

[220/221]

Keep looking for the tripped GFCI recep.


Check the garage, Check behing bathroom decorative mirrors.


In that era it was not uncommon for all bathrooms, outside and garage receops to be on a single GFCI protected circuit.

I cannot get continuity between ground and the neutral

A GFCI may interrupt the neutral as well as the hot....maybe???

 

[CopperTone]

yup - i say tripped gfi you can't find. look outside, at panel, in basement, garage, it is there you just can't find it. gfi breaker maybe?
this is a great reason to not wire stuff like that - plus now the code prohibits it.

 

[mivey]

Few thoughts:

1) Did you pull out all recepts or just the dead ones? If not all, look for a recept that gets used a lot (vacuum, hair dryer, iron, etc) and look for a bad connection.

2) GFI is hidden behind boxes in basement, china cabinet, in the attic, crawl space, etc.

3) Put a tracer on the wire and work your way back to the panel.

 

[ceknight]

...... Starts with W. I was thinking back stab wire bad joint cannot find any thing. The only thing I have found that is worrying me is on all of the dead recp. I cannot get continuity between ground and the neutral. (grounds and net. tied together in panel) I have power leaving every wire in the panels.......

If you don't find the GFCI (and it could be anywhere), check behind the live outlets nearest your dead ones. That's probably where you'll find your problem.

 

[cadpoint]

Sounds like to many shared GFCI's, and that's sounds like the crooked "W"

Since your structure was from 96' the rules where vager and sharing of GFCI's were even looser than todays appliable codes!

Not much help, but maybe a circuit tracer is required here!

 

[480sparky]

Mentally map out what doesn't work, and ask yourself, "How would I have wired that?"

Now, try to deduce where the circuit would have been fed from. Started checking for loose connections there.

Plug a recep. tester into a non-working recep, and thump the walls next to other deivices, watching the tester for the lights to flicker. Sometimes this trick works well. Otherwise, take another recep tester and insert it into live receps and give them a twist back and forth. If your dead recep tester flickers, you've found the problem spot.

Sometimes, you gotta go on a snipe hunt.

 

[Flex]

I once found outside lights feed by a GFI next to the panel that had the security plugged into it so I did not think to see if it was tripped because I thought it would be a dedicated outlet. Also at my mothers house the gfi breaker went bad even though it was in the on position.

 

[ceb58]

Keep looking for the tripped GFCI recep.


Check the garage, Check behing bathroom decorative mirrors.


In that era it was not uncommon for all bathrooms, outside and garage receops to be on a single GFCI protected circuit.



A GFCI may interrupt the neutral as well as the hot....maybe???

There are only 3 GFIC's I can find throughout the whole house. 1 in garage it runs 4 other recp. in there and 1 on back deck. The other 2 are in the kitchen.
I have tried "mapping" the house the only thing I can find is the recp. in the basement bath has 3 14-2's as 1 in 2 out? It's the no continuity between net. and ground is what has me thinking broken wire. There is only 1 GFCI breaker and it serves the Jacuzzi.

that's sounds like the crooked "W"

I made the comment to the HO I didn't see how the house passed inspection with 14-2 for the bath circ.He said they bought the house when it had just been dried in and unknown to him the GC was going broke. He also said I was the 4'th tradesman to make the statement about not seeing how it passed inspection. He is convinced that there was some $$$$ between the GC and inspector
Going back tomorrow with tracer and some help.

 

[mivey]

...It's the no continuity between net. and ground is what has me thinking broken wire...

A heavily or well-used recept will have the neutral burnt a lot of times. Don't know why the neutral seems to be the weak spot the majority of the time but that's the way I've found it.

On the non-working recepts: Do you have anything on the ungrounded wire (like with your neon tester)? You could always bring in an extension cord from a working outlet to give you good reference points.

 

[Cow]

You could always bring in an extension cord from a working outlet to give you good reference points.

After seeing Larry Fine mention this, I've used this method a time or two.
Like mentioned above GFCI's do break the neutral too. This is one of those jobs, that you might of been able to pay for half(or all) of a good circuit tracer instead of wasting time running around. I bit the bullet right when I turned out and bought the Amprobe 2005 after watching the j-men before me run around all the time without one.

 

[electricalperson]

we had a problem like this once. i was testing a receptacle outside with a wiggy and tripped a gfci. taken a long time to find it but it was inside of a bathroom. if you do find it and fix it you should pigtail the wires and put gfci's in the areas that require gfci's so this problem doesnt happen again

 

[mivey]

Like mentioned above GFCI's do break the neutral too. This is one of those jobs, that you might of been able to pay for half(or all) of a good circuit tracer instead of wasting time running around. I bit the bullet right when I turned out and bought the Amprobe 2005 after watching the j-men before me run around all the time without one.

I agree. I got one of these http://www.tequipment.net/Ideal61-958.asp and it paid for itself within a few months.

 

[SeanKelly]

check in by the jacuzzi tub access. Don't know why they would put there but I would look. I would also look for hidden faceless GFI closest to the bathroom where the you would pull the homerun in the closet. Using the extension cord is also a pretty good trick to track it down backward. Good Luck

 

[JohnJ0906]

Few thoughts:

1) Did you pull out all recepts or just the dead ones? If not all, look for a recept that gets used a lot (vacuum, hair dryer, iron, etc) and look for a bad connection.

2) GFI is hidden behind boxes in basement, china cabinet, in the attic, crawl space, etc.

3) Put a tracer on the wire and work your way back to the panel.

If the basement was finished later, the gfci might have been buried. I've seen this before.

 

[JohnJ0906]

I see houses from that era where all the non-kitchen outlets requiring GFCI protection were protected from one located at the panel.

Also, check the circuit that is protected by the one in the garage. There might be a loose connection in one of the outlets.

 

[cadpoint]

http://www.tasco-usa.com/cmt24s_a.jpg

Had good luck with this one!

 

[Easy Money]

I had a similar situation and finally found the tripped GFI behind a pull out drawer in the bathroom. Owners never knew it was there.
On another one the tripped GFI was in the garage behind a framed picture that was screwed to the wall.

 

[guschash]

I had one where the bathroom had no power and found the GFIC in one of the bedrooms.

 

[480sparky]

I had one where the bathroom had no power and found the GFIC in one of the bedrooms.

Legal at one time in the past.