Help me with multi-room audio

[brantmacga]

One of my best friends is building his first house; nothing spectacular, just simple farmhouse.

The only thing he's asked for is to have outdoor audio on the back porch and in the kitchen, along with surround speakers in the living room.

VDV I can do, multi-room audio I have no experience with.

I've been looking online, and it seems my options are amplified volume controls to run the speakers, or getting a receiver that will drive the living room surround and with extra outputs to connect the kitchen/porch speakers.

What is the preferable option? He wants to be able to connect his phone and play music, but I think it would also be nice to play the tv audio over them as well so when we're out there grilling on game day, you can hear what's on the TV in the living room.

If this is simple enough, I'd rather not bring in an LV contractor. The budget is tight and I'm doing this for cost + beer. Not because he asked, but because he's like family.


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[Smart $]

This will get you started...

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-c8InoJH25r0/learn/learningcenter/home/multiroom_power.html

 

[brantmacga]

Help me with multi-room audio

Thanks.

I'm looking at these P&S On-Q digital audio systems now that are made to go into their structured wiring enclosures.

It uses amplified keypads with source selection. It may be a few dollars more than they wants spend, but looks to be a super simple installation and easy to use.


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[egnlsn]

An excellent source for questions such as this:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/36-home-v-distribution/

 

[brantmacga]

Thanks for that link I'll check there


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[curt swartz]

If you want easy to use and decent quality look at Sonos.

 

[brantmacga]

If you want easy to use and decent quality look at Sonos.

Do you have a Sonos player? If so how do you like it?

I have been looking at them , but from what I can see it doesn't offer much more than the Legrand On-Q digital media source; the On-Q also controls most all the same steaming services from their own app. The other benefit of using the Legrand product is that A) it's less expensive, B) it hides away as a module in the structured media panel, & C) the Legrand app offers visual control of all zones and sources within the system.

I'm going to keep looking at it though.

As of right now I think I want to go with this On-Q system and the amplified volume/source selection switches along with a global input connected for the TV, and another global input connected to an AirPlay server.


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[brantmacga]

Update for anyone looking for the same info or making comparisons with Sonos....

I called P&S today to discuss their digital audio input source. It seems to have almost identical features to the Sonos Connect player. The streaming service controls are built-in to their hardware like Sonos; they have their own app like Sonos to control the music, so if a call comes in on your smartphone the music does not stop as long as you are using the streaming service through their hardware.

It can play purchased songs from the iTunes library on your device as long as the song is downloaded and not streaming from Apple Music or your iTunes Match. Tech support said that Apple Music subscription songs could not be played even if downloaded; that is where the Sonos differs.

For Apple Music pass songs, you need to connect their Bluetooth receiver (doesn't have to be theirs specifically) or an AirPlay receiver to an analog global source input.

And I'm not 100% sure the Sonos can play Apple Music pass songs either, because their manual also discusses connecting an airport express to the Connect unit for Apple Music; it's a bit confusing.

So considering all of this, it seems the On-Q module is still the better option. It's $100 less, installs inside the SMC as a module, and integrates seamlessly into the On-Q system. And again their app allows you to not only control the module, but also visually drag and drop sources into zones for easier control I think.


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[multimediatech]

Valid option

Valid option

Hey there,

I noticed you were looking for some advice about how to setup a 2 zone audio system when 1 of the zones requires wireless audio functionality. This is what we normally do to proficiently integrate a AVR with a wireless solution. It may be on the higher price range but definitely very reliable and fully expandable.

https://usa.denon.com/us/heos-drive

I own a small audio video company in Houston Texas.

 

[brantmacga]

I definitely appreciate the info; I'll save this one for future reference.

As of now we are going with the On-Q system. We will already have an enclosure for the networking and TV wiring, so for about $1200 we will also have 2-room (included an outdoor zone) audio with Apple AirPlay functionality. The main TV audio will also be routed through this system.

This is a very budget-conscious installation.


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[brantmacga]

Help me with multi-room audio

Here is the system so far ......

Got most of the components in tonight and cat5/coax terminated, but still missing my 1x6 phone board that will bring the DSL service in.

Top to bottom on the left is the digital audio input module, audio distribution module, 8-port gigabit switch, 12-port network interface, power distribution module, and then the half-width power strip.

On the right is a 12-port coax module, half-width mounting board to support the satellite switch, and a half-width board to hold the DSL modem. The phone board will go under that, and then a short cable to send phone service to the modem. Under that is the power supplies for the two volume control amplifiers. I used the 60w amps, which is the highest they offer for the wall control. Doing this requires a separate power supply for each controller routed through the power distribution block.

Also, you have to purchase separately a power supplies for the network switch and audio distribution module. I think they do this because they offer a range of power supplies for different size systems, so if you have several components you can use one large power block. The audio amps and network equipment run at different voltages. I actually ordered what they call a 120w power supply for the amps, and it came as two 60w bricks that connect together on a single 120v power rail.

There is a surge-protected receptacle in the bottom of the cabinet.

The digital audio input module will give access to all of their streaming services like pandora, SiriusXM, etc.....

There are two global source inputs in the living room that will feed into the audio distribution module; the first will bring audio from the surround receiver so the zones can play whatever they are watching on TV. The second will be connected to the audio output of an Apple Airport express; this will give them Apple Airplay, and the airport express will also be their wifi hotspot fed from the DSL modem.

We ended up doing two exterior zones; back porch and front porch, and 5.1 surround in the living room area that will also cover the kitchen. We ended up around $1500 for the cabinet and components, plus all the surround speakers, powered subwoofer, and 4 outdoor speakers. It's all Legrand On-Q stuff. The price went a little higher due to using the 60w controllers vs 20w, which also required the two 60w power supplies that cost more, and buying another set of outdoor speakers vs indoor.

I'll update more when it's finished. Sharing this for future search as I found nothing here when researching this.




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[JFletcher]

Very nice work, that's probably the neatest OnQ panel Ive seen to date. Some close ups of the terminations would be helpful to future v/d/v installers.

 

[brantmacga]

Very nice work, that's probably the neatest OnQ panel Ive seen to date. Some close ups of the terminations would be helpful to future v/d/v installers.

Thanks man. Yeh most I've seen are a mess.

I'll get some better pics when it's done. I really like their networking board with all the punch-downs on the back. The last time I installed one of these years ago, the punch-downs were on the front, and it wasn't nearly as finished looking.

My only negative comment so far is how flimsy all these boards are. I suppose it doesn't really matter when the cover is on, but I did expect them to be more solid. You can easily bend all of these components when they're not in the frame.

But overall I'm pretty satisfied with the fit and finish.


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[brantmacga]

Help me with multi-room audio

The audio system is pretty much done. Here are some pics below of the progress.

The only thing missing now is the DSL modem and the dish network switch. The phone module is finally in; not sure if you can see but it also has the surge suppressor module attached.

I thought about making custom patch cables to keep excess at a minimum, but the supply houses sold me all these patch cords for $1/ea, so I went with those instead.

The outdoor speakers are Legrand 1000 series; budget model, but they sound great. The amplifier keypads are AU7050 60w models, which is the highest they offer in the On-Q line.

We have three sources; On-Q digital streaming module, and two On-Q global source inputs. We have an Apple Airport express connected to one of them for Apple AirPlay, and I put another behind the TV. We have the RCA outputs of the TV connected to the other global source input, and this will take whatever is playing on the TV and route it to the outside speakers if you want to hear what's playing outside. This RCA is split between the global source input, and the surround receiver. The reason is because they bought a TV with built in apps, and we needed to get that audio back to the surround receiver. The trade-off is that we don't have 5.1 surround for Netflix, etc..... I need to see if I can find a toslink converter that will allow 5.1 for the interior surround, but also give me an RCA stereo mix simultaneously.

The surround speakers are also Legrand 1000 series in-wall and angled in-ceiling, except for the center channel. We got a Sony dual 4" center channel from Best Buy for $170, but it won't be in until later this week.

I used those same recessed wall boxes at the bedroom TV locations, but replaced the brushed insert with a keystone strap with RJ45 and F connector keystones. Interesting note; if you get the Legrand TV box that has visible screws to attach the the wall, you can replace the brush insert with any decora keystone strap. If you get the kind that has a cap covering the screws, you cannot replace it. I had no idea until they showed up and had to replace some.





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[brantmacga]

Another note, if I were to do this again, I'd run conduit to all of my LV locations. I didn't do it here as it's a 1 story, but I had an issue with a Cat5 feeding an audio control, and it wouldn't work at all. I think someone cut the cable in the wall and I had to re-pull that cable. Luckily here it was an easy fix.


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[mgookin]

Very nice!

 

[Dr Duke]

Yes. Very nice job indeed. This would be a fun job to do, since it's something a guy doesn't do daily. Also nice to expand into other things. I can see how running a raceway to each LV location would definitely be beneficial for upgrading in the future and pulling additional cabling. It looks great man.

 

[gadfly56]

The audio system is pretty much done. Here are some pics below of the progress.

The only thing missing now is the DSL modem and the dish network switch. The phone module is finally in; not sure if you can see but it also has the surge suppressor module attached.

I thought about making custom patch cables to keep excess at a minimum, but the supply houses sold me all these patch cords for $1/ea, so I went with those instead.



The outdoor speakers are Legrand 1000 series; budget model, but they sound great. The amplifier keypads are AU7050 60w models, which is the highest they offer in the On-Q line.



We have three sources; On-Q digital streaming module, and two On-Q global source inputs. We have an Apple Airport express connected to one of them for Apple AirPlay, and I put another behind the TV. We have the RCA outputs of the TV connected to the other global source input, and this will take whatever is playing on the TV and route it to the outside speakers if you want to hear what's playing outside. This RCA is split between the global source input, and the surround receiver. The reason is because they bought a TV with built in apps, and we needed to get that audio back to the surround receiver. The trade-off is that we don't have 5.1 surround for Netflix, etc..... I need to see if I can find a toslink converter that will allow 5.1 for the interior surround, but also give me an RCA stereo mix simultaneously.

The surround speakers are also Legrand 1000 series in-wall and angled in-ceiling, except for the center channel. We got a Sony dual 4" center channel from Best Buy for $170, but it won't be in until later this week.

I used those same recessed wall boxes at the bedroom TV locations, but replaced the brushed insert with a keystone strap with RJ45 and F connector keystones. Interesting note; if you get the Legrand TV box that has visible screws to attach the the wall, you can replace the brush insert with any decora keystone strap. If you get the kind that has a cap covering the screws, you cannot replace it. I had no idea until they showed up and had to replace some.


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Great looking work.

It looks like you've got mounting hardware for exterior video. Am I seeing this right?

There's a red device on the ceiling on the left hand side in the background in the one pic I left in this reply. Is that a fire alarm notification device?

 

[mgookin]

Great looking work.

It looks like you've got mounting hardware for exterior video. Am I seeing this right?

There's a red device on the ceiling on the left hand side in the background in the one pic I left in this reply. Is that a fire alarm notification device?

Looks like a bag.

 

[brantmacga]

Great looking work.

It looks like you've got mounting hardware for exterior video. Am I seeing this right?

There's a red device on the ceiling on the left hand side in the background in the one pic I left in this reply. Is that a fire alarm notification device?

Thanks

Yes there will be a TV out back.

That is a dust cover on the smoke alarm


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