Help with Partial Outage in NY

[cqueen40]

Hello, I live in an apartment building in Brooklyn, NY. We are currently in a heat wave and Con ED has reduced voltage by 8%. They have also advised using only 1 AC and reducing energy usage. My 5000 BTU AC works but the brand new 8000 BTU will barely go into cool. Furthermore, even when the 5000 BTU is on, the lights in my kitchen and bathroom are dim to the point of being off.

That can't be the trade off right? Something tells me it may also be something with my electrical wiring. Even when we didn't have a heatwave a few days ago and I had two ACs on, the lights were quite dim.

Should I go to Con ED first and then find an electrician with my landlord? Obviously, the default answer now is it's a heatwave but I feel like there is more to it! What questions should I be asking? Thank you!

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I approved as it is just asking for advice. It is not a DIY thing.

 

[busman]

I don't know if the moderators are going to allow this one, but since it could be time sensitive, I'll just ask questions so that if they allow it, some of the information that is needed will be there.

1) Square footage of the apartment
2) Approximate age of the building
3) Size of the service (this would be a number in amps). You may not be able to access the disconnect to get this info.
4) A better description of "barely goes into cool".
5) Are lights dimmer just when the unit starts or all the time while it is running?
6) What (generally) are the other loads of any significance running at the same time?
7) Type of bulbs that are getting very dim: incandescent, fluorescent or LED?

 

[busman]

I approved as it is just asking for advice. It is not a DIY thing.

Thanks Don. I just posted some questions that seemed safe. No information provided before you approved.

Mark

 

[ron]

Check if the neighboring apartments are having the same problem. Most equipment can tolerate a 8% voltage reduction and still function, so after you find out if it is isolated to your apartment only, call your landlord for an electrician

 

[cqueen40]

I don't know if the moderators are going to allow this one, but since it could be time sensitive, I'll just ask questions so that if they allow it, some of the information that is needed will be there.

1) Square footage of the apartment
2) Approximate age of the building
3) Size of the service (this would be a number in amps). You may not be able to access the disconnect to get this info.
4) A better description of "barely goes into cool".
5) Are lights dimmer just when the unit starts or all the time while it is running?
6) What (generally) are the other loads of any significance running at the same time?
7) Type of bulbs that are getting very dim: incandescent, fluorescent or LED?

1) 800 sq ft
2) 1931, old pre war building
3) NA
4) the 8000 BTU AC will not cool in cool mode. It will stay in fan mode. It doesn't appear compressor is turning on
5) Lights dim all the time while it is running
6) The Fridge is running, gas stove was on for a little bit. Two ACs didn't work so I only kept the 5000 btu on but I am not using a washer or dryer or any heavy applicances
7) LED lights getting dim

Hopefully this helps! Thank you

 

[cqueen40]

Check if the neighboring apartments are having the same problem. Most equipment can tolerate a 8% voltage reduction and still function, so after you find out if it is isolated to your apartment only, call your landlord for an electrician

other buildings having similar issues

 

[zbang]

(based on the info available)
Unless it was rewired, this sounds like the type of place that was built for some lights, a clothes iron, and maybe a refrigerator. It could be that two A/Cs happened to work with the voltage from the street was was 120 and they could cope with the drop from there; reduce the street to 110 volts then add a higher drop (higher motor current at lower voltage), and they just give up.

There probably aren't any quick fixes, but having an electrician measure the voltage at each outlet would tell them a lot.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

other buildings having similar issues

Most likely a Con Ed issue if other buildings are having the same issues.

 

[cqueen40]

Con Ed came by and said the building was getting all the power but whatever it was going through in the basement was too small. They advised upgrading electrical equipment. I think the wiring could be dropping the voltage a bit lower than the 8%

 

[hbiss]

Lights dim all the time while it is running... LED lights getting dim

That would indicate more than just a lowering of the voltage by 8%. The voltage would hold steady under load at approximately 115V which is normal for many kinds of equipment. No, sounds like each apartment was wired with one 15A circuit for a light bulb and hotplate. Probably a 30A fuse or a penny. Then what @zbang said above.

-Hal

 

[hbiss]

Con Ed came by and said the building was getting all the power but whatever it was going through in the basement was too small. They advised upgrading electrical equipment. I think the wiring could be dropping the voltage a bit lower than the 8%

You should have noticed lights dimming and flickering when the voltage was normal.

-Hal

 

[cqueen40]

Update: Electrician came by this morning and opened up apartment panel box. There were only two breakers, a 15 and a 20. The 20 had less stress on it and was only running some of the lights. While the 15 was running the ACs and the fridge on the other side of the apartment.

The electrician replaced the breaker with another 20A. He said proper solution was to install another 20A at least from the basement to the apartment but this would require wiring and likely cost a couple thousand. Doubt landlord is gonna do this so let's see if the new 20A replacement will help.

Any reaction?

 

[ron]

Update: Electrician came by this morning and opened up apartment panel box. There were only two breakers, a 15 and a 20. The 20 had less stress on it and was only running some of the lights. While the 15 was running the ACs and the fridge on the other side of the apartment.

The electrician replaced the breaker with another 20A. He said proper solution was to install another 20A at least from the basement to the apartment but this would require wiring and likely cost a couple thousand. Doubt landlord is gonna do this so let's see if the new 20A replacement will help.

Any reaction?

If the 15A wasn't tripping, then increasing it to 20A isn't going to help your originally reported problem.

Hopefully the size of the wire was appropriate for a 20A breaker.

 

[cqueen40]

If the 15A wasn't tripping, then increasing it to 20A isn't going to help your originally reported problem.

Hopefully the size of the wire was appropriate for a 20A breaker.

yes, he said it was. I am going to keep following the issue closely and may ask for a housing inspector to come. The law in NYC is exceptionally broad. The law requires that your apartment be “adequate to supply electrical current to the required fixtures and appliances” (NYC HMC §27–2026).

If it gets worse, I'll try and escalate. I know I'm not the only one having this problem in NYC but all modern apartments have more than one breaker for ACs and appliances. You were right, this place was built in 1931 for hotplate and a clothes iron

 

[zbang]

Did the electrician look at the actual voltages with and without the A/Cs running? If not, they didn't complete the job. (Changing the breaker won't help at all if it wasn't tripping in the first place.)

Best you might do for the moment is find an outlet that's on the other breaker and temporarily run a heavy extension from that to one of the A/Cs (maybe the Super can help with this?). The real answer is probably going to be running only one A/C until the brown-out is over and later getting wiring updated.

 

[cqueen40]

yes, he said it was. I am going to keep following the issue closely and may ask for a housing inspector to come. The law in NYC is exceptionally broad. The law requires that your apartment be “adequate to supply electrical current to the required fixtures and appliances” (NYC HMC §27–2026).

If it gets worse, I'll try and escalate. I know I'm not the only one having this problem in NYC but all modern apartments have more than one breaker for ACs and appliances. You were right, this place was built in 1931 for hotplate and a clothes iron

Did the electrician look at the actual voltages with and without the A/Cs running? If not, they didn't complete the job. (Changing the breaker won't help at all if it wasn't tripping in the first place.)

Best you might do for the moment is find an outlet that's on the other breaker and temporarily run a heavy extension from that to one of the A/Cs (maybe the Super can help with this?). The real answer is probably going to be running only one A/C until the brown-out is over and later getting wiring updated.

you're right they did half the job. the voltage tester didn't have batteries! right now, everything is okay. the heat wave broke so lights are all working + 2 ACs if I run them. I just called and they said I prob have the voltage needed (prob not less than 110). but ya, they didn't do the full diagnostic. Maybe I can do the voltage test myself.

Welcome to NY

 

[darekelec]

I live in brooklyn and my energy monitor showed serious voltage drop during heatwave. 100V for many hours .

 

[darekelec]

When My energy meter shows 03:00 the actual time is 15:00
It is off by 12 hours