Help with Partial Outage in NY

[ptonsparky]

Last night, July 16, the ACs were again having trouble staying on. I am going to ask my landlord to add another breaker and if he doesn't, I will withhold August rent. It was in the 80s last night so didn't make sense, that it was cutting out again. Ughh. Thanks for everyone's advice

You could add 20 breakers but it will not do a thing for low voltage.

 

[cqueen40]

You could add 20 breakers but it will not do a thing for low voltage.

What do you mean exactly? I am not asking for just a new breaker but new wiring for a new breaker or two. Currently, my two ACs and fridge are running off one 15a. Last night I don’t think it was a low voltage issue because there was no reported brownout.

Do you have a suggestion on what I should exactly be asking for? Thanks so much

 

[darekelec]

Voltage was steady at my apartment in brooklyn.
Other than a dip at 4 pm or 4 am
I would swap ACs first . My Midea u shaped ACs don’t have problems with lowered voltage.
It’s most likely power company problem of not having sufficient grid for the demand.

 

[darekelec]

In nyc landlord does not have to upgrade your electrical. Other than some hpd violations like not having receptacle in bathroom.

One time landlord did not allow us to install AC line for an elderly renting rent controlled apartment hoping she would pass away sooner so he could renovate and charge more for the apartment.

 

[darekelec]

My window ACs are inverters so compressor is DC . Prolly that’s why are not affected by VD.
Due to recall there is a bunch of them on free market.

 

[cqueen40]

My window ACs are inverters so compressor is DC . Prolly that’s why are not affected by VD.
Due to recall there is a bunch of them on free market.

interesting those are large BTUs though from what I see online. LL is going to send electrician again to diagnose issue and go from there. Certified mail sent out too from my end. Let's see

 

[darekelec]

8 or 12 k Btu
Run it on low and is super quiet

 

[zbang]

Please talk with a tenant rights organization before withholding any rent, there are right ways and reasons and there are very wrong ones which can get you evicted.

 

[Eddie702]

The whole electrical Infrastructure needs updating. Both the building and the utility. I have seen plenty of equipment when you get down to below 108-106 volts it just will not work. If someone thinks things will fly at 100 volts it will not work.

NYC and the "green agenda" wan't to take the 1000s of steam heated building and do away with fossil fuels and go heat pump.

Never happen unttil the grid is updated.

 

[Eddie702]

Last night, July 16, the ACs were again having trouble staying on. I am going to ask my landlord to add another breaker and if he doesn't, I will withhold August rent. It was in the 80s last night so didn't make sense, that it was cutting out again. Ughh. Thanks for everyone's advice

Compressor cant start and trips overload due to low voltage and then tries to start again and again. Those older building were not built with AC in mind it had barely been invented then.

My strong advice is if its not cooling unplug it or you will kill the ac trying to run it on low voltage.

 

[darekelec]

OPs breakers don’t trip

 

[cqueen40]

Yesterday, electrician confirmed issue is with the building wiring between basement and my apartment. Power coming into the apartment is unstable, voltage dropped to 48V at times. He moved two wires in the box that were stuck together (got a little shock ) and 120v came in for a little but then was out again. The basement is getting 120v, he said.

They are going to open up some box that has been locked for hundred years? They had to saw something off. Definitely sounds like the internal wiring but he said he can create a new line up the windows. Currently I have two 15 circuits for entire apt

 

[AC\DC]

Move- that withholding the rent threw me off what do expect in a 1913 building —-

 

[WD40]

Update: Electrician came by this morning and opened up apartment panel box. There were only two breakers, a 15 and a 20. ...

the 15 was running the ACs and the fridge on the other side of the apartment.

My 5000 BTU AC works but the brand new 8000 BTU will barely go into cool.

120V window AC units are as inefficient as it gets and they pull about 1 amp per 1000 BTU @120V.
Also since you attach them to the window they are considered a 'fixed appliance' in the electrical code.
You have now created a code violation of NEC 210-23(A)(2) by plugging the 2nd one in as the total load of fixed appliances cannot exceed 50% of any given breaker and you have 13A on a 20A.
So the 15A rating = a max AC load of 7.5A or 7500 BTU.
20A breaker = 10A = 10000 BTU max.
I deal with this often and plug in heaters in the winter, you need to separate the AC units to different breakers.
The only electrical issue you seem to be reporting is the 8000 BTU unit, and by continuing to run it you may cause damage to your building that you'd be liable for.
Expecting your landlord to update the wiring is like expecting him to cut a hole in the wall and put in a window for you, or remodel the kitchen, a modification of the building.
The landlord's duty is to maintain the apartment as it was when you rented it, and your duty is to not damage the apartment.
You can't withhold rent for failure to remodel the building.
Not to sound harsh but I see this often in older rent controlled buildings, its a well known issue I have even seen window AC / space heater use spelled out in a lease.

 

[darekelec]

So it’s buildings internal wiring that caused the voltage drop . Interesting . On top of słup in the grid .

 

[cqueen40]

I plan to keep the focus on safety not upgrades. It's NY and 100 degree weather. Am I unreasonable that I choose to run two ACs (one in the BR and the other living room)? I didn't configure the circuits to have one 15A powering two ACs and a fridge. There is only one light that works clearly when this happens and it's at the other end of the apt. It appears that the room has it's own circuit and the rest of apt is on the other 15A

 

[zbang]

Am I unreasonable that I choose to run two ACs

Given the circumstances, I think you are; just run the one that works better and stay in that room.

 

[WD40]

I plan to keep the focus on safety not upgrades. It's NY and 100 degree weather. Am I unreasonable that I choose to run two ACs (one in the BR and the other living room)? I didn't configure the circuits to have one 15A powering two ACs and a fridge. There is only one light that works clearly when this happens and it's at the other end of the apt. It appears that the room has it's own circuit and the rest of apt is on the other 15A

The max total AC units you can run on a 15A circuit is 7.5 Amps, on a 20 its 10A typically thats 7500 BTU and 10000 BTU.
NYC had a mostly overlooked local ordnance, it required branch circuits wire to be sized no less than #12 and to allow a voltage drop of no more than 3 percent at the last outlet in the run with a 50% fixed appliance load. The maximum voltage drop allowable for feeders and branch circuit combined could not exceed 5 percent. My friend worked there for a company that had a yellow tester that could test the voltage drop. That was years ago and it was because of window AC. If that's still on the books that may help your case.
In new buildings without central AC NYC also required a dedicated AC circuit of some sort in the code, but this was years ago, you'd need to check the code.

 

[darekelec]

Individual 20A receptacle for AC in habitable rooms is in nyc amendments

 

[cqueen40]

Thanks, the electrician came by and confirmed the issue seems to be with the wiring specific to my apartment. He spoke with other tenants who haven’t had major problems aside from light dimming, which points to my line being overloaded or degraded. He plans to recommend running a new wire — possibly rated up to 40 amps