Here we go again, Working Hot

Status
Not open for further replies.
Circuit Tracers

Circuit Tracers

Aleman said:
I watched the Donnies accident video. It's an eye opener. Our engineers have a tracer that clips on a wire like an amp clamp and will put an audio tone into the line. Then they can pick it up on the other end. Is this what you are referring to?

Thanks for posting about the hot work.
Click to expand...

I have an old Ideal #62-135 underground cable locator with a attachment to clamp around conductors and pipes. Can I somehow modify this for tracing circuits?
 
jim dungar said:
Where is this policy actually explained? How did it arrive its distances?
The OSHA reference does not include a distance. NFPA70E does not define 'working near'. About the closest they get is the Restricted Approach, and Prohibited Approach boundaries based on voltages.

Questions like this need to be addressed in companies' Electrical Safe Work Practices programs.

I am not trying to say what procedures are or are not safe. I am simply pointing out that most safe work practices are company dependent and are not explicitly defined in OSHA or 70E.
Click to expand...

Working "near" in 1910.333 it defined by table S-5 for qualified persons.
 
jim dungar said:
Where is this policy actually explained? How did it arrive its distances?
The OSHA reference does not include a distance. NFPA70E does not define 'working near'. About the closest they get is the Restricted Approach, and Prohibited Approach boundaries based on voltages.

Questions like this need to be addressed in companies' Electrical Safe Work Practices programs.

I am not trying to say what procedures are or are not safe. I am simply pointing out that most safe work practices are company dependent and are not explicitly defined in OSHA or 70E.
Click to expand...

Let me ask you this, assume no company policy and an OSHA inspector sees me changing fuses in a standard NEMA safety switch that the line side terminals are still live on.

Do you think he will say I am exposed to live parts? Forget 70E and just contemplate 1910.333
 
zog said:
Working "near" in 1910.333 it defined by table S-5 for qualified persons.
Click to expand...
That table is for Overhead Lines, it is not applicable to internal parts of enclosed equipment.

1910.333(c)(3)(ii)
"Qualified persons." When a qualified person is working in the vicinity of overhead lines, whether in an elevated position or on the ground, the person may not approach or take any conductive object without an approved insulating handle closer to exposed energized parts than shown in Table S-5 unless:
 
Ravenvalor said:
I just watched "Donnie's Accident" and am truly concerned about my safety now. Can you please recommend some tools for tracing circuits? My company is just a one man operation and my annual sales are half of what you spent on your tracers however safety comes at a price.

Thank you to all for promoting safety on this forum.
Click to expand...

We bought a whole heck of a lot of them, we are a very large company, Even if you could use the clamp on one, its accuracy would not be great. They tend to bleed signal everywhere. A decent tracer will run you around $3-4 hundred dollars, a real good one goes for $8-9 hundred. I bought my first one back in the mid 1980's. It cost me $1200, but has paid for itself time and time again. The antenna in the receiver eventually breaks loose from the circuit board from heavy use, but I usually get at least 8 years out of it.
 
jim dungar said:
That table is for Overhead Lines, it is not applicable to internal parts of enclosed equipment.

1910.333(c)(3)(ii)
"Qualified persons." When a qualified person is working in the vicinity of overhead lines, whether in an elevated position or on the ground, the person may not approach or take any conductive object without an approved insulating handle closer to exposed energized parts than shown in Table S-5 unless:
Click to expand...

I know it reads that way but table S-5 does not mention overhead lines and I have always considered it part of section C, I guess it is not very clear like it is in 269 but that is how I have always read it. Really the only reference there is.
 
zog said:
I know it reads that way but table S-5 does not mention overhead lines and I have always considered it part of section C, I guess it is not very clear like it is in 269 but that is how I have always read it. Really the only reference there is.
Click to expand...
Picking and choosing applicable code sections should be done as part of an Electrical Safe Work Practices program.

The OSHA table for overhead lines and the similar NFPA 70E table for Limited, Restricted, and Prohibited approach boundaries primarily deal with when 'insulated' tools are required. So back to Iwire's original issue with changing fuses, is the task considered working on energized equipment and therefore generally 'prohibited', or can it be done, as long as an insultated fuse puller is used and the Prohibited Approach boundary (1" @ 480V) is not crossed?
 
jim dungar said:
Picking and choosing applicable code sections should be done as part of an Electrical Safe Work Practices program.

The OSHA table for overhead lines and the similar NFPA 70E table for Limited, Restricted, and Prohibited approach boundaries primarily deal with when 'insulated' tools are required. So back to Iwire's original issue with changing fuses, is the task considered working on energized equipment and therefore generally 'prohibited', or can it be done, as long as an insultated fuse puller is used and the Prohibited Approach boundary (1" @ 480V) is not crossed?
Click to expand...

The 2012 70E clarified that energized work is anything inside the LAB or arc flash boundary, so an EEWP is required to perform that task. Many facilities use a standing permit for routine tasks like pulling fuses.
 
All other tables and sections aside i maintain my opinion that if i am close enough to contact live parts i am in violation of osha standard 1910.333 unless suited up and hot work is allowed
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top