Here's your sign

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fisherelectric

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Northern Va
I had a job supervisor ask me to get a bathroom ready so the homeowners kids could use it while their house was still being remodeled, so I went over and put in switches and plugs and plates and a temporary light. Went back over there today...3 weeks later...and found the plugs on either side of the sink pulled out and hanging over the 36" top hot...no tape...nothing. The sink had all the kids'...6 or 8 years old...toothbrushes etc laying there under the hot outlets. I asked the head carpenter what was going on. He said they had to pull the receptacles out to change the top and that they had been like that for 2 weeks. I asked him why he didn't put them back or tape them or something and he says because he knew they were hot and he didn't want to get shocked and that his supervisor was supposed to take care of it. The supervisor shows up and says "oh yeah...I forgot about it" I told him that that was one of the most irresponsible negligent things I had ever seen and I think I may have used the word "idiot" in there somewhere. I think I should call his boss who I contract with and tell him about it. Bare feet...tile floor...wire within 18'' of the faucet on either side. I can't believe the HO never said anything. Boggles the mind.
 
It's hell to be you, isn't it? I'm the same way. I care about stuff like this, and get bitched at for bringing it up. Well you're right to care. Not only from a common sense decent ethical approach, but from another standpoint, too. If a child had been hurt, whose pockets are deep on the job? The general contractor and the electrical contractor would be a great place to start. The fact that the painter didn't say anything is just mind-numbing. I would make a fuss. :smile:
 
fisherelectric said:
I had a job supervisor ask me to get a bathroom ready so the homeowners kids could use it while their house was still being remodeled, so I went over and put in switches and plugs and plates and a temporary light. Went back over there today...3 weeks later...and found the plugs on either side of the sink pulled out and hanging over the 36" top hot...no tape...nothing. The sink had all the kids'...6 or 8 years old...toothbrushes etc laying there under the hot outlets. I asked the head carpenter what was going on. He said they had to pull the receptacles out to change the top and that they had been like that for 2 weeks. I asked him why he didn't put them back or tape them or something and he says because he knew they were hot and he didn't want to get shocked and that his supervisor was supposed to take care of it. The supervisor shows up and says "oh yeah...I forgot about it" I told him that that was one of the most irresponsible negligent things I had ever seen and I think I may have used the word "idiot" in there somewhere. I think I should call his boss who I contract with and tell him about it. Bare feet...tile floor...wire within 18'' of the faucet on either side. I can't believe the HO never said anything. Boggles the mind.
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I am taking points off for you not taping these when you installed them.
 
electricmanscott said:
I am putting the points back on because tapping was not the issue here, incompetence by the contractor was.
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Sometimes you have to protect people from themselves,I have seen this happen many times were a carpenter/painter will take a receptacle out of the wall and not replace it.It was taught to me as a cub to always wrap a turn of tape on switches and receptacles.
 
I don't want to see a live receptacle hanging out of the box with or without tape. On a remodel I normally leave a couple of GFCI protected receptacles live for use by the contractors. I tap and cut the ears off so they will not have to remove to sheet rock or anything else. I leave them with cover plates on but they are normally missing later.

If you can it's better to put a temp GFCI breaker in the panel and that way even if the wire is nicked it will trip. I don't really like leaving anything live in the areas of work but in some cases you have to.

I leave temp. lights with a safety cage so that all they need do is remove the protective cage and the sheet rock will then fit over the temp fixture but many are to dumb even to do this. You often find saftey cover thrown out.
 
Rewire said:
Sometimes you have to protect people from themselves
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Not me.

I do not have to do my job in such a way it remains safe when someone else intentionally dismantles the work.

Besides, as growler said

growler said:
I don't want to see a live receptacle hanging out of the box with or without tape.
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It's not safe or legal taped outside the box.

Maybe we should use tamper proof screws. :wink:
 
iwire said:
Not me.

I do not have to do my job in such a way it remains safe when someone else intentionally dismantles the work.

Besides, as growler said



It's not safe or legal taped outside the box.

Maybe we should use tamper proof screws. :wink:
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Its like the code ,the NEC is just the "minimum" standard and if you follow it you are doing the "minimum",I have never been one to settle for just minimum.In a perfect world extra effort would not be needed,but this aint it.I always want the work place to be as safe as possible and armed with the knowledge of 30 years in the trade that sometimes devices get pulled out if the box and not returned I believe that taping them prvides a level of safety above not taping them,this does not imply they are legal or safe out of the box just safer.
 
Rewire said:
I have never been one to settle for just minimum..
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Another human being came along and removed two screws and pulled the device out.

This is not the fault or responsibility of any EC for that persons actions.

What do you do at panels, I see painters remove those as well?

If you feel better taping them up...great, but don't make it sound like those that don't do it your way are wrong.
 
iwire said:
Another human being came along and removed two screws and pulled the device out.

This is not the fault or responsibility of any EC for that persons actions.

What do you do at panels, I see painters remove those as well?

If you feel better taping them up...great, but don't make it sound like those that don't do it your way are wrong.
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It is not a matter of right or wrong its a matter of being a little safer for the fool the will remove them and for the innocent that may come in contact with them,It is never anyones responsibility for the actions of others and I never make the claim but foreknowledge that these people may do something irrisponsible should prompt us to at least make a reasonable attempt to make things as safe as possible ,you are free to curse the darkness or you can turn on a light.
 
In Mr. Fisher's defense, there was no notice that anyone had any intention of removing the receptacles after he installed them, which deprived him of the opportunity to even consider taping over the terminals.

I personally hate taping over device terminals (I don't even like the yellow strips on GFCI load terminals :cool:), but I always do it if I have reason to believe there is the chance they will become exposed in the future.

What strikes me as the most inane is the guy who was so aware of the danger that, after taking them out, declined to attempt to reinstall them, yet he had no problem with leaving them exposed and hot. :rolleyes:

"I'm not gonna touch them. It's dangerous!"
 
In hindsite I should have known these guys screw something up in that bathroom....but leaving those hot receptacles hanging out of the wall by that sink when they saw those kids in there every morning getting ready for school for 2 weeks is beyond my believing. If I didn't do so much work for that company I'd be tempted to tell them "I ain't doing your work no more"
Ever work for a GC whose work ethics and planning embarrasses you? I wonder how they stay in business. I'm sure the HO saw those receptacles hanging out and never dreamed that anybody would be stupid enough to leave them energized.
 
Rewire said:
Sometimes you have to protect people from themselves,I have seen this happen many times were a carpenter/painter will take a receptacle out of the wall and not replace it.It was taught to me as a cub to always wrap a turn of tape on switches and receptacles.
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If they are supposed to be taped the tape would come with it. The screws do.
 
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