He's Full of ....

[kwired]

Still shall be protected anyway -- what's your point?
406.4 General Installation Requirements
(D) Replacements. Replacement of receptacles shall comply with 40 6.4(D)(1) through (D)(6), as applicable. Arc-fault circuitinterrupter type and ground-fault circuit-interrupter type receptacles shall be installed in a readily accessible location.
(3) Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupters. Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protected receptacles shall be provided where replacements are made at receptacle outlets that are required to be so protected elsewhere in this Code.
(4) Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. Where a receptacle outlet is supplied by a branch circuit that requires arc-fault circuit-interrupter protection as specified elsewhere in this Code, a replacement receptacle at this outlet shall be one of the following:
(1) A listed outlet branch-circuit type arc-fault circuit-interrupter receptacle
(2) A receptacle protected by a listed outlet branch-circuit type arc-fault circuit-interrupter type receptacle
(3) A receptacle protected by a listed combination type arcfault circuit-interrupter type circuit breaker This requirement becomes effective January 1, 2014.

I realize what it says. Does it make sense we can take it apart move it six feet and put it back together, yet if we leave it where it is we can't replace a component with an equivalent component to what was originally there?

 

[mwm1752]

so would you agree that OCPD is a device? & if you move a panel location less than 6' & replace the breakers afci protection should be upgraded.

 

[iwire]

I realize what it says. Does it make sense we can take it apart move it six feet and put it back together, yet if we leave it where it is we can't replace a component with an equivalent component to what was originally there?

Yes, it does make sense.

 

[iwire]

And the EGC is not, IMHO.

I agree and why I did not include it in my post.

 

[JFletcher]

Still shall be protected anyway -- what's your point?
406.4 General Installation Requirements
(D) Replacements. Replacement of receptacles shall comply with 40 6.4(D)(1) through (D)(6), as applicable. Arc-fault circuitinterrupter type and ground-fault circuit-interrupter type receptacles shall be installed in a readily accessible location.
(3) Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupters. Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protected receptacles shall be provided where replacements are made at receptacle outlets that are required to be so protected elsewhere in this Code.
(4) Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. Where a receptacle outlet is supplied by a branch circuit that requires arc-fault circuit-interrupter protection as specified elsewhere in this Code, a replacement receptacle at this outlet shall be one of the following:
(1) A listed outlet branch-circuit type arc-fault circuit-interrupter receptacle
(2) A receptacle protected by a listed outlet branch-circuit type arc-fault circuit-interrupter type receptacle
(3) A receptacle protected by a listed combination type arcfault circuit-interrupter type circuit breaker This requirement becomes effective January 1, 2014.

So glad VA doesnt have this nonsense (yet). So, what happens if I need to change a bedroom receptacle in my house (in VA) that has too many wires in it to begin with so a thick AFCI receptacle wont fit, change out my FPE panel? Find the home run in the attic and put it in there, then hope no neutrals of different circuits are tied together?

The exceptions for changing out 2 prong receptacles with another, a GFCI, or 3 prong that's GFCI protected dont exist in the 2014 NEC anymore? (406.3(D)(3)).

(Yes, I know the old welding box needs to be changed anyway, that's beside the point).

 

[iwire]

So glad VA doesnt have this nonsense (yet). So, what happens if I need to change a bedroom receptacle in my house (in VA) that has too many wires in it to begin with so a thick AFCI receptacle wont fit, change out my FPE panel? Find the home run in the attic and put it in there, then hope no neutrals of different circuits are tied together?

If you wanted a job that did not require problem solving you should have been a sheetrocker.






(You know I am just kidding around )

 

[kwired]

Yes, it does make sense.

I believe I am entitled to disagree.

If you wanted a job that did not require problem solving you should have been a sheetrocker.

I also believe I am entitled to agree

 

[JFletcher]

Sheetrockers solve all their problems by hosing the electrician!

Extra mud? Put it in an electrical box!
Where to stack drywall? On the wall where I need to be!
Rotozip? Trace the inside and mangle my wires & cables!

Seriously tho, I dont have this problem since VA isnt on the 2014 NEC, and AFCI are only required for bedroom outlets in residential construction. It was more a rant that 210.12(B), which allows minor modifications w/o AFCI, is incongruous with 406.4, which mandates AFCI for receptacle changes, which isnt even a modification to me.

Are attics "readily accessible"? Would it matter if there is a folding set of stairs at the door vs having to get a step ladder to gain entry? Also, are the exceptions I mentioned in my previous post gone from the 2014 NEC?

eta: just saw the entire section of 406.4, 2014 NEC. Problem solved.

 

[peter d]

So glad VA doesnt have this nonsense (yet). So, what happens if I need to change a bedroom receptacle in my house (in VA) that has too many wires in it to begin with so a thick AFCI receptacle wont fit, change out my FPE panel? Find the home run in the attic and put it in there, then hope no neutrals of different circuits are tied together?

Believe me, AFCI's often do not get installed in situations like that. :happyno: