Hi Z

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K8MHZ said:
I was just picking on GE because they can turn into metal melting shunts. To be fair, CH breakers can go into never trip status as well. I saw one carry 115 amps which is a lot for a 15 amp breaker. The #14 actually jumped when I turned the breaker on. All the lights in the basement went to dim. It was a bolted, actually wire nutted, short about 50 feet away in an outside light.
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Did it trip eventually?
 
kwired said:
That scenario usually is going to make any visible damage (while still flush in the wall) appear around the slots where the cord plugs in.
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Not always.
In the scenario I mentioned there was no discoloration around the slots because nothing was plugged in. The overload on the circuit was "down stream" from the device. The yoke was so hot it heated the single 6-23 plate screw enough to melt it plus the wall paper was discolored in an oval shape around the box and the gypsum board was brittle.
Upon removing the device from the it was very difficult to differentiate the color, the bakelite box was brittle from the heat but intact.
The culprit: 30amp single pole breaker on a 15amp copper clad wire that was back stabbed through out the house to shed that had incubators heat lamps etc. It was drawings about 40amps and did Not trip.
As close to igniting a fire as you could get
 
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Knuckle Dragger said:
Not always.
In the scenario I mentioned there was no discoloration around the slots because nothing was plugged in. The overload on the circuit was "down stream" from the device. The yoke was so hot it heated the single 6-23 plate screw enough to melt it plus the wall paper was discolored in an oval shape around the box and the gypsum board was brittle.
Upon removing the device from the it was very difficult to differentiate the color, the bakelite box was brittle from the heat but intact.
The culprit: 30amp single pole breaker on a 15amp copper clad wire that was back stabbed through out the house to shed that had incubators heat lamps etc. It was drawings about 40amps and did Not trip.
As close to igniting a fire as you could get
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Sounds like another case of homeowner or "handiman" saying "here's a wire let use this one" for the feed to the shed. Then using the old fuse mentality of the fuse keeps blowing just put in a bigger one. Then you get a breaker that is not functioning properly making the scenario of putting the penny under the fuse.
How was it you got there before the house burned down? They were lucky.
I've been on a rewire call, HO said about a particular outlet "that outlet not working but no breaker tripped". Investigated as I was replacing and when I pulled the receptacles out, the back half with the stab ins stayed inside the box the face didn't show any real signs of heating but the bakelite was so brittle that I could powder it in my hand. Whole circuit was being rewired anyway but it was so close to being a fire.
Brings up a thought, would these types of incidences be less if receptacle is pig tailed rather than being feed thru, where it is the overload of the entire circuit rather than of the individual receptacle that is heating up a receptacle?
The picture in the OP looks like the strap had gotten energized without tripping the breaker to get that burn pattern not directly a backstab issue.
 
Fred B said:
Sounds like another case of homeowner or "handiman" saying "here's a wire let use this one" for the feed to the shed. Then using the old fuse mentality of the fuse keeps blowing just put in a bigger one. Then you get a breaker that is not functioning properly making the scenario of putting the penny under the fuse.
How was it you got there before the house burned down? They were lucky.
I've been on a rewire call, HO said about a particular outlet "that outlet not working but no breaker tripped". Investigated as I was replacing and when I pulled the receptacles out, the back half with the stab ins stayed inside the box the face didn't show any real signs of heating but the bakelite was so brittle that I could powder it in my hand. Whole circuit was being rewired anyway but it was so close to being a fire.
Brings up a thought, would these types of incidences be less if receptacle is pig tailed rather than being feed thru, where it is the overload of the entire circuit rather than of the individual receptacle that is heating up a receptacle?
The picture in the OP looks like the strap had gotten energized without tripping the breaker to get that burn pattern not directly a backstab issue.
Click to expand...
You got it right, home owner!
Long story short. I just happened to be there at the right time. I was having a conversation with the home owner when his wife came up to us and casually said she "smelled something funny". But then got caught up in our conversation.
She started to head back inside the house when I asked her what she meant by that.
Once I found the source of smell ( kind of a fishy odor) there was a lot of scrambling after that.:)
 
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