History of Grounding

[bennie]

With the statement by Don, that none of us know or understand everything about grounding. I agree with him. I am researching the origin of grounding with hope of clearing up a lot of misconceptions.

I am starting with my engineering book published in 1894. Grounded circuits were circuits using the earth as a conductive path.

Dynamos were ungrounded. Single phase and three phase.

The star points of delta/wye distribution systems were electrically connected together. The purpose was to contain a winding to winding fault in transformers.

The star points were bonded but not grounded.

Now I have a starting place. I will work forward from 1894 and try to find the changes in the technical procedure and reason for grounding.

 

[fc]

Re: History of Grounding

Bennie
Just some info to pass along
The Soares book on grounding Has the History and mystery of grounding . It's very interesting.

 

[bennie]

Re: History of Grounding

fc: Thanks, I have read the article. It is good, but something is missing.

I want to find out how it evolved into the procedures we use at this time.

I think some false science crept into the issue.

 

[charlie]

Re: History of Grounding

Bennie, you have way too much knowledge to take everything with you. Have you considered writing a book? I know a lot of people would be interested in what you have to say, even if they don't always agree with you.

Speaking of taking it with you, how are you doing? I want you to know that you will be missed and much more than you know. I have never met you and yet I feel like I can count you as one of my friends.

 

[iwire]

Re: History of Grounding

Bennie your a heretic and we need that.

You have gotten me to think of a bigger picture than just the NEC which up to now I assumed had all the answers.

Please keep it up you are expanding my knowledge of the NEC and electricity in general.

Thanks and I hope you are feeling OK.

Bob

 

[iwire]

Re: History of Grounding

Bennie all of what Charlie said is absolutely true.

Do not ever think you have not made an impact here, I can not believe that I am the only one that has learned something from you.

Whenever I do not see you posting I get worried about you, best wishes for continuing longevity.


Bob

 

[roger]

Re: History of Grounding

Hello Bennie, you can put me in there with Charlie and Bob.

Roger

 

[russellroberts]

Re: History of Grounding

I think we're all very happy that someone with Bennie's experience and knowledge chooses to share it.

What I've learned from reading your posts is priceless.

Russell

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Re: History of Grounding

Bennie,
I, too, appreciate the knowledge, experience and views that you bring to the forum. You have really made a lot of us think more deeply about the "whys" of what the code is telling us to do. Thanks.
Don

 

[Ed MacLaren]

Re: History of Grounding

I have also learned much as a result of Bennie's participation. Although, we sometimes do not agree, he sure does make me think about things I thought I knew, and hope he is around for a long time to come. Often, I log in just to see what he has to say.

I also consider myself an opinionated old cuss.

Ed

[ June 15, 2003, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Ed MacLaren ]

 

[bennie]

Re: History of Grounding

Gentlemen: I am overwhelmed by the support. My thanks to all.

There is no concern with contradicting opinions. I don't believe everything I post either

We all learn when I am proven wrong.

Ed: Very good article.

I am going to walk through the history of grounding, as it develops, from my research. I will search old engineering books for technical facts. I will post the name and source of all documents.

I hope to get some understanding of many areas that do not make sense to me. Maybe we all can learn something.

The statement in the 1894 textbook, "that grounded circuits were systems that used the earth as the return conductor".
This tells me that circuits were not grounded and did not contain a ground wire as we are now installing.

 

[bennie]

Re: History of Grounding

I want to progress slowly so I don't lose my chain of thought.

Fact: Grounding, in 1894, was using the earth as a conductor. Wouldn't it be best to try for a 25 ohm or less inpedance, for this connection?

[ June 15, 2003, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]

 

[dereckbc]

Re: History of Grounding

Bennie, that would depend on the voltage of the distribution system and how much loss you could afford. 25 would be too high in my oppinion.

 

[bennie]

Re: History of Grounding

Dereck: The dynamos used for earth return systems are constant current type. The only thing changed is the voltage. The 25 ohms appears to be a maximum within the parameters of the arc lamps and voltage requirements.

These are my findings, with a degree of speculation. I am throwing them on the wall and see if anything sticks.

[ June 15, 2003, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]

 

[jro]

Re: History of Grounding

Bennie I will also chime in my support, two thumbs up, four if I had four, keep up the good work old friend.

 

[sjspad]

Re: History of Grounding

HI TO ALL
FOR THOSE WHO GET IT ,THERE IS A NICE ARTICLE IN THE JUN/JUL ISSUE OF NEC DIGEST ABOUT THE THE HISTORY OF GROUNDING .

STEVE

 

[bennie]

Re: History of Grounding

Hello Steve: I don't get that magazine. I would like to read the article. Who is the author?

There is a book store, here in Portland, that has a big building full of technical books and publications. There is many old and new ones.

I want books with articles written at the time of the described event or procedure. I don't want someones personal spin or fantasy. I think a lot of science has been corrupted by guesswork. Some experts will give you an answer even if it is hog wash.

[ June 15, 2003, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]

 

[bennie]

Re: History of Grounding

We have had domestic electricity for 100 years. I worked at the trade for half that time.

I still do not know why the 25 ohms for grounding, why a 4 and 11/16 box, or why stick one side of a perfectly good supply source in the dirt.

I installed a ground plane at the South Pole Research Station, it was 2 miles above ground. There was 4 MW of generated power at 480 volts. There is no earth connection and everything worked fine and no one, or nothing went dead.

The electronic equipment was some of the most sensitive in the world.

[ June 15, 2003, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]

 

[svaurez]

Re: History of Grounding

How about the future of grounding?

 

[bennie]

Re: History of Grounding

Some day the future of electrical power will be with load averaging storage equipment. Homes will not be electrically connected to the utility.

Appliances will tell the panel what kind of power they need. Any deviation will cause a shut down of the circuit. A ground fault or short circuit will initiate an immediate trip, without a great amount of current to interrupt.

Services on homes, and the distribution system, will be about one third the present size, due to load averaging.

Turn on a 100 watt light, the switch will tell the panel it needs .83 amps. Should this increase to .84 the switch will get an off signal. The rest of the lights will still operate.

And I criticize fantasy

[ June 15, 2003, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]