electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
peter d said:
How dare you!
HO or EC, Who is doing more resi work?
- Thread starter Mule
- Start date
- Status
How dare you!
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
electricmanscott said:
I know...I know....I'm taking food out of someone else's mouth, I'm a hack, it's all about the children, the listing, the bald eagles, the spotted owls, that kind of work is for pro's only.....etc etc. :roll:
ramsy
NoFixNoPay Electric
- Location
- LA basin, CA
- Occupation
- Service Electrician 2020 NEC
Since buyer's mortgage insurance requires inspection before home resale, make special bus. card, coincidentally resembling municipal inspection red tag.
While walking thru open houses place card near most egregious violation/panel, which stealthily notes license, the problem, contact, and repair estimate.
Saving the world against these fire hazards should not be a crime.
While walking thru open houses place card near most egregious violation/panel, which stealthily notes license, the problem, contact, and repair estimate.
Saving the world against these fire hazards should not be a crime.
growler said:I would guess that in this area that unlicensed contractors, handymen and side jobbers are getting the bulk of the remodeling work. It's really hard to tell because so much work is done without permits. I think that at least 50% of the basement finishes, bath and kitchen remodels are done without permits. Even when permits are issued it can be only for a portion of the work. Example is a contractor permits service change and the rest is done under the table.
Just like the electrical inspector a licensed contractor doesn't get a call on many of these under the table type jobs. There are many unlicensed contractors that stay busy. There are many advantages to getting work done under the table, no permits so they can do whatever they want, no records or taxes for the contractor, no work slow down waiting for inspections. The down side is that by cutting corners they take a risk of fire or injury. Many homeowners are willing to take a risk to save money.
The up side is that much of the work is done very poorly and we get lots of service calls over the years. People don't believe me when I say this but there is not that much that goes wrong with a properly installed electrical system. If it wasn't for cheap made parts and hacks we wouldn't get that much work at all.
In our parts, Home inspectors have exploded in numbers, and although they are not as knolwedgable as full fledge electrical inspectors, they do catch a lot of this work, but not untill the house sells, and SOMETIMES it gets fixed right, and sometimes it doesnt
In General I'm conservative minded, and I don't like alot of government control, but its a wonder we dont have more fires than we do from un-code compliant work. I think existing occupants and future buyers deserve a safe place to dwell.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Mule said:
I think it is my right as a homeowner to do my own work on my own home. Future buyers of my home should hire a home inspector to evaluate the home before they buy it if they are not capable of inspecting it themselves.
I am sure there are mechanic forums where some mechanics feel car owners should not be able to work on their own cars either. :smile:
iwire said:
I fully agree 100%, But if you were holding the mortage and/or the homeowners insurance on my house you might have a different perspective.
I was raised thinking my home is MY castle, or my land is my land, and I guess thats true if I have it paid for.
chris kennedy
Senior Member
- Location
- Miami Fla.
- Occupation
- 60 yr old tool twisting electrician
And I don't trust my brakes in their hands. How do you know if they are one of the 50% that finished in the bottom half of their class? (I forget who's quote that is)iwire said:
- Location
- Massachusetts
Mule said:
I might, but I don't so I won't.
cal1947
Member
- Location
- waldorf,md
electrician
electrician
electrician
why you say the nec is overkill, it's based on minimum standards, not maxinumelectricmanscott said:
- Location
- Massachusetts
cal1947 said:
There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that there are rules contained in the NEC that where originally proposed to the NFPA for no other reason then to sell more products.
Read the proposals and note who is making the proposal and who it would benefit.
electricmanscott said:
No it doesnt take a rocket sciencist to make things work, BUT it does take someone with a well understanding of art 240 and 250 to make things safe, does it not?
We do live in a society that increasingly believes that preventing accidents is of upmost importance IMO. At least a certain portion of the public. This thought beggs for a safer code.
Home owners are not the only ones who get it wrong and then call us. While one service call this week was a HO who tried to install GFCI recepts in his kitchen and they did not work. Another was a small kitchen remodel, new tile and counter tops. When the cabinet man moved the island about 6 inches the FMC parted and sparked. It did not trip the breaker so the cabinet guy cut the power to the island off. He told me "No wonder it didn't trip it was on a hundred amp breaker!" When I got there the HO was ready to die because her big screen did not work, half the lights, and a few other things. Sure enough the cabinet guy had cut off the sub panel feed. In effect cutting off half her 120v circuits.
Gene
______________________________________
Remember - Speed Kills and it may not always be you.
Gene
______________________________________
Remember - Speed Kills and it may not always be you.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Mule said:
Maybe, maybe not. Either way some of us take kind of an elitist attitude when it comes to electrical work in that nobody could possibly do what we do. Again, it's not that difficult for someone that is a little handy to do the majority of what you find in a dwelling electrical wise. We can do it faster and better although the diy way may be just fine.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
cal1947 said:
True, and some of the minimum standards may be overkill.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
electricmanscott said:
Yup, to be an electrician only requires on the job training (and some classroom supplements in some states.) The biggest thing you need is common sense. When you have that you can do electrical work.
brother
Senior Member
Be careful guys, lets not 'minimize' what we do. this is why in 'some areas' that the pay is soooo low, (cause they think anyone can do it). I wouldnt say out 'trade' is rocket science' but i would say to do it 'safely ' and to 'code' a person would need years of experience and training.
Its sad, but its only ELECTRICIANS that i see really 'beating up' their OWN trade, this why i see the other trades prosper so much. Then folks get mad cause its soo many 'hacks' out there that UNDER bid and get the work.
Its sad, but its only ELECTRICIANS that i see really 'beating up' their OWN trade, this why i see the other trades prosper so much. Then folks get mad cause its soo many 'hacks' out there that UNDER bid and get the work.
electricmanscott said:
I think I agree with everything thats being said here....In truth a resi branch circuit is really simple. But the more you go "up stream" in electrical systems the more the avaible fault current, thus the more issues the code needs to address.
I remember specifically a few years back talking to one of the state inspectors and he said most electricians taking the journeyman test fail on art 240 and 250 because they were not prepared.
I also agree that some items in the code are in deed made to sell, as earlier stated.
Another thought, I bet a dentist after doing 100 root canals, thinks it is pretty simple also...:grin:
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