Home inspection appliance power issue

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charlie b said:
I think this is simple: Inform the party who is paying your bill (I suspect it is the seller or their agent, but whoever) that the HI has made an incorrect call, one that lies outside the NEC requirements. Then stand back and let the buyer and seller negotiate the path forward. I am sure you would be willing to do a rewire job, if one of them agrees to pay you for it. But it does not need to be rewired, and both parties need to understand that.

Give them both a link to this thread, if that will help. :happyyes:
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Yes, will do. Thank you so much.
 
micabay said:
Not sure who told you this, but that person is wrong.
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I made the comment. I didn't quote anybody. I owned my error in Post #17. After I changed my new electric clothes dryer installations to an insulated neutral in the late Seventies, with the exception for SE Cable originating in the main service center, I haven't given electric clothes dryers guts much thought.

micabay said:
the main drive motor is 120 VAC, pulls about 1 amp.
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Isn't the motor a little larger than that? I think you'll find your current is low. It's got to be around a third of a horse.
 
micabay said:
Not sure who told you this, but that person is wrong. All dryers in the states, with exception to a few from Europe, the main drive motor is 120 VAC, pulls about 1 amp.
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Nearly all dryers for the North American market have had 120 volt motors and 120 volt control timer, some even a 120 volt light inside the unit.

At one time that same 120 volt motor and control were used in both a gas and electric model of same product line, saved needing two different parts for those units.



Neutral was allowed to bond the appliance cabinet for many years, don't know when they threw in the requirement for the neutral to be insulated, was before I started working in the trade. SE cable was the exception that allowed the neutral to be bare.

So it is likely the OP install never was code compliant. At same time a HI's job is finished when he puts it in the report that it wasn't compliant - it is up to the buyer and seller how to deal with anything on the HI's report and none of what is on his report is legally binding - it is just a report of what HI has observed. They sometimes are wrong, misinformed, etc. as well - which is where an electrical professional can step in and say - "this was once allowed" or "that was never allowed", but is still nothing but a bargaining tool between buyer and seller on how to deal with it.

Having a HI involved is a little like taking your mechanic with you to look at a used car before you purchase it. He can't make you or the original owner change anything he identifies as a problem, but both can take his advice into consideration on how they are willing to proceed with the sale of the car. Mechanic says the brake pads are nearly worn out - he can't make either buyer or seller replace brake pads, but it informs both of them that maybe there is some depreciated value to the car in that finding.
 
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Update

Update

So today I went to the home in question, personally, having done very little residential, The range receptacle is 4 prong, 3-wire. Where the neutral prong enters it is simply connected to the Green ground lug? No lug for a neutral wire yet a 4 prong recep, Green and 2 hots. I thought that odd as I assumed I needed a new range cord--receptacle still wrong but I have never seen that. Anyhow, the realtor went to several listings in the immediate area and also had the seller ask immediate neighbors to look at panel connections. One (of 7) had a 4-wire cable (bare gnd) to range but 2-wire with bare gnd going to dryer, the balance of the homes, all built in the 70s, are wired with 2-wire with bare gnd just as the home in question is wired. I grew tired of the debate and told all I would do what they like however (per great advice here) this work does not need to be done. Further, after looking the home over, attic & crawl, I am shocked at a HI that would overlook so many other issues but stand on this!
 
jsmalone1 said:
So today I went to the home in question, personally, having done very little residential, The range receptacle is 4 prong, 3-wire. Where the neutral prong enters it is simply connected to the Green ground lug? No lug for a neutral wire yet a 4 prong recep, Green and 2 hots. I thought that odd as I assumed I needed a new range cord--receptacle still wrong but I have never seen that. Anyhow, the realtor went to several listings in the immediate area and also had the seller ask immediate neighbors to look at panel connections. One (of 7) had a 4-wire cable (bare gnd) to range but 2-wire with bare gnd going to dryer, the balance of the homes, all built in the 70s, are wired with 2-wire with bare gnd just as the home in question is wired. I grew tired of the debate and told all I would do what they like however (per great advice here) this work does not need to be done. Further, after looking the home over, attic & crawl, I am shocked at a HI that would overlook so many other issues but stand on this!
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I've never seen a 4 prong range or dryer recep with 3 wires and N to G jumped in the recep.... I dont know the code section(s) off hand, but that is not right. The bonding strap/jumper in a dryer or range has to be in the range or dryer, you cant have a 4 wire receptacle wired to 3 wires and N/G jumped.

afaik, it isnt bare ground, it's a bare neutral, with SE cable, that also acts as the ground (EGC). Distinction with a difference.

And yes, I too have seen HIs hit the most trivial/mundane violations while overlooking things that are immediately dangerous to life and/or safety.
 
I seem to recall that you can get a 240v only dryer. I'd install a 240v w ground receptacle and be done if it is wired in NM.
If SE cable stand your ground. This home inspector has no Authority what so ever other to suggest a code upgrade. That is it. :happysad:
 
Sierrasparky said:
I seem to recall that you can get a 240v only dryer. I'd install a 240v w ground receptacle and be done if it is wired in NM.
If SE cable stand your ground. This home inspector has no Authority what so ever other to suggest a code upgrade. That is it. :happysad:
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You may however the bulb inside is always 120V, maybe the motor too. If even the bulb is 120V, it's using the neutral/ground as a CCC. But you're right, if it's 3 conductor SE cable, the HI needs to pound sand (assuming there's not a 4 wire receptacle with an illegal n/g jump on it in there).
 
JFletcher said:
You may however the bulb inside is always 120V, maybe the motor too. If even the bulb is 120V, it's using the neutral/ground as a CCC. But you're right, if it's 3 conductor SE cable, the HI needs to pound sand (assuming there's not a 4 wire receptacle with an illegal n/g jump on it in there).
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Why would there be a bulb in a 240v only dryer. I have seen these and there are no light bulbs. My gas dryer has no bulb.
 
Sierrasparky said:
Why would there be a bulb in a 240v only dryer. I have seen these and there are no light bulbs. My gas dryer has no bulb.
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I never see bulbs that are for convenience light. There was an interest in germicidal bulbs, back when, before antibiotics were put in soaps (for the germ-o-phobes.)
 
JFletcher said:
Your dryer has no interior bulb that comes on when the door is opened? Color me the newbie!!
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Dryer I have right now has a light inside, but don't think any previous dryers I have ever had - had a light inside.

JFletcher said:
I've never seen a 4 prong range or dryer recep with 3 wires and N to G jumped in the recep.... I dont know the code section(s) off hand, but that is not right. The bonding strap/jumper in a dryer or range has to be in the range or dryer, you cant have a 4 wire receptacle wired to 3 wires and N/G jumped.

afaik, it isnt bare ground, it's a bare neutral, with SE cable, that also acts as the ground (EGC). Distinction with a difference.

And yes, I too have seen HIs hit the most trivial/mundane violations while overlooking things that are immediately dangerous to life and/or safety.
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I took his explanation to mean they only had one grounded/grounding conductor in supply and it landed on the EGC terminal of the receptacle. Not exactly right code wise, but if you didn't remove the bonding jumper in the appliance everything works anyhow.
 
JFletcher said:
I've never seen a 4 prong range or dryer recep with 3 wires and N to G jumped in the recep.... I dont know the code section(s) off hand, but that is not right. The bonding strap/jumper in a dryer or range has to be in the range or dryer, you cant have a 4 wire receptacle wired to 3 wires and N/G jumped.

afaik, it isnt bare ground, it's a bare neutral, with SE cable, that also acts as the ground (EGC). Distinction with a difference.

And yes, I too have seen HIs hit the most trivial/mundane violations while overlooking things that are immediately dangerous to life and/or safety.
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Took a picture if can post?
 
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