Home Inspections

[jxofaltrds]

Do new homes need to be inspected?

These are only the electrical problems.

http://www.yourhomesok.com/new_homes.htm

Mike P.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Home Inspections

How the HACK are ya! :roll:

 

[steve66]

Re: Home Inspections

Mike:

Where is the bond in the sub panel shown? (I'm an engineer, not a electrician, so I don't know where to look for the bond at). All i see are ground wires on the ground buss, and neutral wires on the neutral buss.


Steve

 

[charlie]

Re: Home Inspections

Steve, they used the MBJ strap to bond the grounding portion to the panelboard. The problem is that the grounding bar is connected to the grounded bar with the factory installed jumper on the very bottom of the buses (black color). That bar is there to provide support and continuity, not to be a grounding bar. That bar is not to be removed since it will void the listing, the EC is required to purchase a grounding bar kit in order to use this as a distribution panelboard.

 

[wayne123]

Re: Home Inspections

Mike, is this a new home that has just been built? Does someone live in it? This is a big mess. There is no way that this has been inspected .

 

[charlie]

Re: Home Inspections

Did you notice that on the first Flying splice that the grounding conductor has been turned back and not used?

[ September 23, 2003, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: charlie ]

 

[Guest]

Re: Home Inspections

Random Questions:

What state is this in?

Does this jurisdiction recognize & adopt the NEC?

Was there a permit?

Is it inspected by an all-around or an electrical inspector?

Were there electrical drawings?

Was there a rough inspection?

Has the house been finaled?

What is your role in this project?

Has the house been purchased?

Is there a lawsuit yet?

Was there any graft involved?

How did it get this far as many issues would have been caught on the rough?

Why are the images so big?

Preferred image size for posting is about 50K or less.

These images are about ten times too big. Anybody on dial-up will be unable to view the full-size images. They will spill off most screens too and make it hard to get the "big picture".

PS: I would be very concerned about the alarmist that thinks it will take $30K to fix what is shown. These apparent violations are just the tip of the iceberg I would suspect. In that case the price will be more, but $30K sounds overly sensational. Answer my questions above, and we can give a more accurate reaction. Please post the cost breakdown for the repair here, or prepare to be flamed. This situation is not a slot machine. Nobody has been injured yet. The damages at this point are strictly time & materials.

[ September 23, 2003, 01:38 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]

 

[bennie]

Re: Home Inspections

Other than the strange splices and a three wire feed to the panel I don't see any major problems.
The bonding at the panel was permitted prior to 1996, when fed by an NM cable.

There is some punch list type problems, but not any major offenses.

The obvious issues can easily be corrected. The cost should be minimal.

 

[mclain]

Re: Home Inspections

Bennie
I would have to agree with you. There are problems but nothing that can not be fixed. I think the $30,000 to $50,000 is way overboard. I worry that any negative comment will any up being used as a promotion of this private building inspection company. I don't think he posted this looking for advice on how to correct the installation. It looks like he was looking for expressions of shock and dismay.

 

[charlie]

Re: Home Inspections

Originally posted by Bennie:
The bonding at the panel was permitted prior to 1996, when fed by an NM cable.

Bennie, where is that located? I opened up the 1987, 1990, and 1993 editions of the Code and found 250-61(b) did not permit this type of installation in any one of them. I wonder if it was by local ordinance?

Bennie, I hope you are wrong (I have yet to catch you in a mistake, me on the other hand . . .)

 

[tonyi]

Re: Home Inspections

I had a similar situation a while ago and had someone with some old code books lookup when seperated N/G subpanel feeds came in. They've apparently been the standard for a LONG LONG time ;-> At least since the late 40's book this fellow had on hand.

 

[Guest]

Re: Home Inspections

My 1957 CA rancher had a 3-wire subfeed and bonded neutral/ground. I live in a large tract of similar homes.

../Wayne C.

[ September 23, 2003, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]

 

[pierre]

Re: Home Inspections

Charlie

You probably do not spend enough time with the diyers. The grounding wire is for support, such as wrapping it around a screw or nail driven in wood for support.
Also if you were to connect a grounding wire the circuit might trip, and that would be an pain in the neck and an inconvienence to the homeowner, really now
(for those who are reading this and do not understand my humor, all of the above is not permitted).

Pierre

 

[wocolt]

Re: Home Inspections

I agree with Bennie, however I see SER cable feeding the sub-panel the ground buss is grounded, the common tie has been removed and the neutral is floating(Isolated) as it is supposed to be.
I think a much bigger panel should have been used but and also there is a white wire going to the ground bar, but that is the way the panels are set-up here in my area of Ohio.

WmColt

 

[Guest]

Re: Home Inspections

Originally posted by wocolt:
<snip>also there is a white wire going to the ground bar, but that is the way the panels are set-up here in my area of Ohio.

WmColt

How do you mean? If the white is a neutral and this is a subpanel, the whites should go to the isolated neutral bar. The greens & bares should be grounds and should go to the ground bar which should be bonded to the panel chassis.

../Wayne C.

[ September 23, 2003, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: awwt ]

 

[bennie]

Re: Home Inspections

Notice the absence of the word "sub-panel" in the NEC.

A panel was considered an extension of the service. All panels were considered service panels. The premises wiring started at the loadcenters. The neutral was the conductor for fault purposes, it was not considered grounding after the main switch. Grounding is an earth connection, according to the definition in Article 100.

The change of the definition of a "service conductor" in 1996, caused the change to 4/wire feeders. Prior to 1996, the service conductor ended at the loadcenters or all panels. In 1996 the service conductor ends at the first switch.

SE cable with a bare neutral/ground was permitted the same as to the first panel.

Some one decided the bond, at the panel, was re-grounding the neutral. This was when the definition of service conductor changed.

[ September 23, 2003, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: bennie ]

 

[wocolt]

Re: Home Inspections

"If the white is a neutral and this is a subpanel, the whites should go to the isolated neutral bar. The greens & bares should be grounds and should go to the ground bar which should be bonded to the panel chassis."


--Sorry about that... The white is not colored green, My mind was going faster than I can type.
yes all the green and bare should go to the bonded ground bus and they do.
There is a bonding jumper toward the bottom of the ground bar with a green screw, and there are 4 wires feeding the panel two hot, one black one black with red/trace a whitish grey and a bare, ergo SER cable, except for that white wire, it looks OK.
WmColt

 

[jxofaltrds]

Re: Home Inspections

Too many questions to answer each one.

Facts
New build 2000.
Under the 1999NEC
Owner is living there
$30-$50,000 is for ALL the defects not just the electric
This is the 10th (in the nation) most growing area

If you could see the during construction pictures that the owner took you would (tihs). Junction boxes hidden in the walls.

This is going to court. I could talk for a day on just the electric.

One last one. the entrance cable runs through the crawl in 4" black drainage pipe.

Mike P.

PS Can I take this post and show it to her attornies?

 

[charlie b]

Re: Home Inspections

Originally posted by jxofaltrds: This is going to court. PS Can I take this post and show it to her attornies?

OK, guys, it?s time for me to throw a flag on the play. If this issue is soon to come before a court of law, it should not be discussed in a public domain forum. I therefore strongly recommend caution in any future posts.

Take a look at the forum?s rules and disclaimers. If a court takes an interest in anything you post, the forum?s webmaster will provide any information about you (name, email address, etc.) to the authorities.

 

[Guest]

Re: Home Inspections

Originally posted by mclain:
<snip> I worry that any negative comment will any up being used as a promotion of this private building inspection company. I don't think he posted this looking for advice on how to correct the installation. It looks like he was looking for expressions of shock and dismay.

McClain gets the foresight award.

I asked a lot of questions upfront and got no answers. Without the answers it's premature to offer advice on this one. The OP did not give us much to chew on, and therefore did not get much in return.