Home Inspector Part 2

[Jerseydaze]

I have a home inspector that says you can not have a splice in a Panel Box .Can someone give me an article that disputes this I believe you cant use a panel as a raceway correct?

 

[JohnJ0906]

312.8

need more

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[Oakey]

From reading prior posts here on home inspectors I dont think they are very well thought of in the electrical eye.

 

[growler]

I have a home inspector that says you can not have a splice in a Panel Box .Can someone give me an article that disputes this I believe you cant use a panel as a raceway correct?

If the panel is in a basement or any other easy location, then set a junction box above the panel and make the splice there. Charge the home owner about $150 for this because they hired the dumb A__ __ you didn't. State on the invoice that it is not against code but it was of concern for the home inspector and that it's been corrected. Easiest and most profitable way out.

Home inspectors are a gold mine.

 

[tallguy]

312.8

Isn't the prohibition in 312.8 only applicable to "conductors feeding through or tapping off to other switches or overcurrent devices" anyway? No worries as long as the conductor is terminating in the box in question?

 

[wbalsam1]

I have a home inspector that says you can not have a splice in a Panel Box .Can someone give me an article that disputes this I believe you cant use a panel as a raceway correct?

It's his responsibility to follow up on this....have him give you the citation from the code book. You'll be retired by then anyway...:smile:

 

[charlie b]

Isn't the prohibition in 312.8 only applicable to "conductors feeding through or tapping off to other switches or overcurrent devices" anyway? No worries as long as the conductor is terminating in the box in question?

I read that line another way. My interpretation hinges on the word ?or.?
? If the conductors are feeding through, then it is OK (presuming you meet the stated criteria).
? If the conductors are tapping off to other switches or OCPDs, then it is also OK (same presumption).

 

[charlie b]

State on the invoice that it is not against code but it was of concern for the home inspector and that it's been corrected. Easiest and most profitable way out.

Or you could just inform the owner that no corrective action is needed, and state the reason. Not profitable, but you will have made two friends: the owner and the real estate agent. I concede that my living does not depend on getting future business from the goodwill generated in this manner, so feel free to disregard my opinion (actually, many members do that anyway ). But if I were the owner, and if you sold me a ?repair? for something you knew was not needed, I would take that most unkindly.

 

[tallguy]

I read that line another way. My interpretation hinges on the word ?or.?
? If the conductors are feeding through, then it is OK (presuming you meet the stated criteria).
? If the conductors are tapping off to other switches or OCPDs, then it is also OK (same presumption).

We are reading it the same way as to what the "or" means... What follows though (in my mind) is that since those two "or" clauses have to meet the criteria, then anything which doesn't fit into either of those two categories is not subject to the criteria that follow.

 

[ceknight]

....Or you could just inform the owner that no corrective action is needed, and state the reason. Not profitable, but you will have made two friends: the owner and the real estate agent.

This past summer two of my customers suddenly found themselves divorcing each other and they wanted to sell their house quickly. A potential buyer's home "inspector" found 3 "violations" that were not violations.

I did exactly what Charlie recommended, and even one better: I photocopied the relevant NEC pages and highlighted the parts that showed there was no corrective action needed, and gave them to the customers and their real estate agent.

They all just shrugged and said "fix them anyway, we don't want to fight with the buyer about it and lose the sale."

I think that's what it really comes down to these days. HI reports are buyers' chiseling tools, and in a buyers' market the owners often benefit more from complying with rather than fighting an erroneous inspection report.

 

[iwire]

It's his responsibility to follow up on this....have him give you the citation from the code book.

In most cases they can not and will not do that, they are not required to as they are not really code inspectors.

Bob (A NACHI Certified Home Inspector who has never inspected a home. )

 

[ItsHot]

home inspectors

home inspectors

In most cases they can not and will not do that, they are not required to as they are not really code inspectors.

Bob (A NACHI Certified Home Inspector who has never inspected a home. )

Tighten up Bob! What is your take on home inspectors that have an electrical background? Is this not a plus to have a home inspector that at least knows what he is looking at when he opens the panel?

 

[infinity]

Tighten up Bob! What is your take on home inspectors that have an electrical background? Is this not a plus to have a home inspector that at least knows what he is looking at when he opens the panel?

I think that it's a plus. Only problem is that most don't have a electrical background or know what they're looking at. I just did a service upgrade this week based on an inspection report. HI said that aluminum conductors were illegally spliced to copper conductors in the panel. Turns out that the aluminum conductors were just old RH copper conductors which have a coating of tin over the copper. Ended up that the seller gave the buyer money off of the asking price based on this incorrect information. If I had all day I could give many other examples of inaccuracies in HI reports on electrical defects.

 

[ishium 80439]

On a separate but related note about home inspectors...

I was talking with an inspector on a rough the other day and he told me that with the rise of these (for the most part) ill informed HI's, it is making the legit inspectors crack down more on their inspections. Take for example a house that is 2-3 years old and has a room with a receptacle that is 6'4" from an opening with a door swinging toward that wall. Most inspectors would look at that on the rough and with experience and common sense sign off on that installation. Than that house sells and the buyer hires one of these guys to come in. They find this violation, relate it to the buyer and seller, than the seller turns around and gets all over the inspection department who signed off originally.

There is a local radio show host out here who is a consumer advocate (The Troubleshooter Tom Martino). He owns a Bernese Mountain dog who is a registered, licensed home inspector. Tom filled out he paper work and put him through an online school. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[wbalsam1]

Bob: With regard to my statement "It's his responsibility, have him follow up on it", this is from the NACHI Standards of Conduct:

1.3. An Inspection report shall describe and identify in written format the inspected systems, structures, and components of the dwelling and shall identify material defects observed. Inspection reports may contain recommendations regarding conditions reported or recommendations for correction, monitoring or further evaluation by professionals, but this is not required.


2.7. Electrical I. The inspector shall inspect:
A. The service line.
B. The meter box.
C. The main disconnect.
D. And determine the rating of the service amperage.
E. Panels, breakers and fuses.
F. The service grounding and bonding.
H. A representative sampling of switches, receptacles, light fixtures, AFCI receptacles
I. And test all GFCI receptacles and GFCI circuit breakers observed and deemed to be GFCI's during the inspection. And report the presence of solid conductor aluminum branch circuit wiring if readily visible.
J. And report on any GFCI-tested receptacles in which power is not present, polarity is incorrect, the receptacle is not grounded, is not secured to the wall, the cover is not in place, the ground fault circuit interrupter devices are not properly installed or do not operate properly, or evidence of arcing or excessive heat is present.
K. The service entrance conductors and the condition of their sheathing.
L. The ground fault circuit interrupters observed and deemed to be GFCI's during the inspection with a GFCI tester.
M. And describe the amperage rating of the service.
N. And report the absence of smoke detectors.
O. Service entrance cables and report as in need of repair deficiencies in the integrity of the insulation, drip loop, or separation of conductors at weatherheads and clearances.


Bob, it seems to me that the Home Inspector has assumed quite a bit of responsibility by accepting the Code of Ethics and the Code of Standards that are expressed in the membership. :smile:

 

[growler]

But if I were the owner, and if you sold me a “repair” for something you knew was not needed, I would take that most unkindly.

Charlie, code doesn't sell an old barn for 500K, BS does. The whole inspection game is a joke. The future buyer ( mark ) must be made to feel confident. If seeing a few electical repairs does the trick then so be it.

Charlie the electrician is not selling you a bogus repair. He is not being hired to inspect the property. He is hired to address the concerns listed in the home inspection report and that's all he is being hired to do. If they want to pay for the time it will take to get the home inspector to remove the item from the inspection report then that's fine but I can assure you that the repair is cheaper ( been there, done that ).

If you want to make friends will a Real Estate Agent then you make sure that nothing and I mean nothing slows down the sell of the property. I provide an invoice and a letter stating that all items found on the inspection report have been addressed. I have done this many times and I have never had a problem.

Try reading "Winning Through Intimidation" by Robert J. Ringer. This book explains how the market works in the real world.

 

[charlie b]

Charlie the electrician is not selling you a bogus repair. He is not being hired to inspect the property. He is hired to address the concerns listed in the home inspection report and that's all he is being hired to do.

Dale, my point was that the decision of whether to repair something that does not need repair cannot be made properly, if the owner is not aware that the item does not need repair. Whoever is paying for the work should, at least, be advised that the work is not required by code. As Chris said in post #10, the owner may decide to do it anyway, if only to increase the chances of closing the deal. Again, my suggestion is to make sure the owner knows the truth, and leave it to the owner to make an informed decision.

 

[growler]

Whoever is paying for the work should, at least, be advised that the work is not required by code.

Charlie, none of the repairs are normally required by code. The NEC covers new construcion, remodeling and maintenance. There are no provisions for the inspection of anyone's private residence for violations. No inspections are required ( until you have a fire or the house falls down ). A home inspector does not have the authority to force a home seller to make repairs and the county inspector doesn't even have the authority to enter your home and inspect it.

This is all about making a home sale and has nothing to do with code compliance. You normally give the homeowmer a flat rate price to correct the items of concern. I let them know up front that they can not be compelled to make any repairs (not by the home inspector ). Even if it were a code violation, I can't, the home inspector can't force anyone to make a repair. If it's serious enough to be considered a hazard then the Fire Marshal or Code Enforcement can.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Tighten up Bob! What is your take on home inspectors that have an electrical background? Is this not a plus to have a home inspector that at least knows what he is looking at when he opens the panel?

Yeah, but then does he know anything about plumbing and structural framing, mold, A/C, etc?

I don't expect anybody to know everything, even if it's the trade they practice, but don't write it down on paper and quote it as gospel if you don't know for sure.

 

[JohnE]

Yeah, but then does he know anything about plumbing and structural framing, mold, A/C, etc?

I don't expect anybody to know everything, even if it's the trade they practice, but don't write it down on paper and quote it as gospel if you don't know for sure.

Exactly. My Brother in Law is a HI, and he seeks my advice from time to time. His standard recommendation if anything plumbing or electrial seems out of place is to consult a qualified licensed electricain or plumber.