steelbuster
Member
- Location
- mn
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/steelbuster/P1010561.jpg
Almost Red Tagged today for this SE panel...
Almost Red Tagged today for this SE panel...
Homeowner DIY
- Thread starter steelbuster
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Homeowner DIY
NOTE TO THE MEMBERSHIP:
I am sure that many of you will do a double take at the title of this thread.
Several months ago, when "Steelbuster" first started asking questions about helping a relative with an upgrade, the Moderators had an off-line discussion about whether this was a DIY situation. We concluded it wasn't. Our concern had been whether it was within the background and experience of a lineman to safely perform installation work within a home. I wanted to let the membership know of our reasoning.
There are many types of occupations involved in the electrical industry. They include engineers, repair technicians, and sales representatives, in addition to electrical installers and inspectors. The Forum rules prohibit giving "How-to" information to a DIY. But what is a DIY? If an engineer wants to perform installation work, that probably is a DIY situation. But what about a lineman? What about an electronics technician? What about a person who makes a living doing fire and alarm systems who now wants to do a service upgrade for a family member? Are we in a position to judge whether the electrical knowledge gained by a person who works in one area is sufficient to permit that person to work safely in another area?
The Moderators concluded that for the purposes of this Forum, no person who has worked in any area of electrical installation is a DIY, even if that person is asking questions about an area in which he or she has never been employed. We are not going to judge who is, and who is not an electrician.
That being said, no member of this Forum is obliged to assist any other member. Provide help and information as you choose. Withhold help and information if you prefer.
NOTE TO THE MEMBERSHIP:
I am sure that many of you will do a double take at the title of this thread.
Several months ago, when "Steelbuster" first started asking questions about helping a relative with an upgrade, the Moderators had an off-line discussion about whether this was a DIY situation. We concluded it wasn't. Our concern had been whether it was within the background and experience of a lineman to safely perform installation work within a home. I wanted to let the membership know of our reasoning.
There are many types of occupations involved in the electrical industry. They include engineers, repair technicians, and sales representatives, in addition to electrical installers and inspectors. The Forum rules prohibit giving "How-to" information to a DIY. But what is a DIY? If an engineer wants to perform installation work, that probably is a DIY situation. But what about a lineman? What about an electronics technician? What about a person who makes a living doing fire and alarm systems who now wants to do a service upgrade for a family member? Are we in a position to judge whether the electrical knowledge gained by a person who works in one area is sufficient to permit that person to work safely in another area?
The Moderators concluded that for the purposes of this Forum, no person who has worked in any area of electrical installation is a DIY, even if that person is asking questions about an area in which he or she has never been employed. We are not going to judge who is, and who is not an electrician.
That being said, no member of this Forum is obliged to assist any other member. Provide help and information as you choose. Withhold help and information if you prefer.
electricman2
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Re: Homeowner DIY
For what reason?
For what reason?
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: Homeowner DIY
What do you mean "almost"? What did the inspector say? Are you asking us to "spot the violation," based on looking at the photo of the panel?
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
Re: Homeowner DIY
I would suggest that the panel in the picture probably supply's some 120 volt 15 or 20 amp bedroom loads.
I would suggest that the panel in the picture probably supply's some 120 volt 15 or 20 amp bedroom loads.
steelbuster
Member
- Location
- mn
Re: Homeowner DIY
Sorry for the confusion, , The inspecter had just left and I was PO'ed and not thinking too clearly.
Yes, I was asking for an opinion on the possible infractions in the panel. He was going to tag me for using medical adhesive tape to mark the nuetral. He couldn't really specify what was acceptable, just that that paticular tape was an "inappropeate" use.
That was it, no other faults from his point of view, but I had to plead for 5 minuets to get him to sign off if I promised to change it.
SO, is there a code requirment? This wouldn't be my first choice normally, but come on...is this a result of being a homeowner job?( I didn't tell him my background.)
Sorry for the confusion,
, The inspecter had just left and I was PO'ed and not thinking too clearly. Yes, I was asking for an opinion on the possible infractions in the panel. He was going to tag me for using medical adhesive tape to mark the nuetral. He couldn't really specify what was acceptable, just that that paticular tape was an "inappropeate" use.
That was it, no other faults from his point of view, but I had to plead for 5 minuets to get him to sign off if I promised to change it.
SO, is there a code requirment? This wouldn't be my first choice normally, but come on...is this a result of being a homeowner job?( I didn't tell him my background.)
steelbuster
Member
- Location
- mn
Re: Homeowner DIY
PS. I had asked this inspecter earlier about adding ArcFault's for the bedrooms, but he said as this was just a SE change with no remodling being done it wasn't required.
PS. I had asked this inspecter earlier about adding ArcFault's for the bedrooms, but he said as this was just a SE change with no remodling being done it wasn't required.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Re: Homeowner DIY
Unless you provided a seal on the outside I'd say that you've violated:
Unless you provided a seal on the outside I'd say that you've violated:
steelbuster
Member
- Location
- mn
Re: Homeowner DIY
10" thick masonary wall, conduit sealed at the LB end.
10" thick masonary wall, conduit sealed at the LB end.
steelbuster
Member
- Location
- mn
Re: Homeowner DIY
While I'm asking questions, here's the other 2 things that came up during the rough...I used a couple of splitbolt's, in some plastic boxes to bond some EGC's.I had to change them to Greenies. I was told it was poor wiring practice to twist conductors togeather and them wirenut them
While I'm asking questions, here's the other 2 things that came up during the rough...I used a couple of splitbolt's, in some plastic boxes to bond some EGC's.I had to change them to Greenies. I was told it was poor wiring practice to twist conductors togeather and them wirenut them
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
Re: Homeowner DIY
i am not aware that there are any specific requirements for what you use to mark wires.
i think what you did is a bit cheesy, but not a code violation.
i see nothing wrong with using wirenuts to connect egcs together.
[ November 17, 2005, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: petersonra ]
i am not aware that there are any specific requirements for what you use to mark wires.
i think what you did is a bit cheesy, but not a code violation.
i see nothing wrong with using wirenuts to connect egcs together.
[ November 17, 2005, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: petersonra ]
Re: Homeowner DIY
Steelbuster,
It is the responsibility of the "Authority Having Jurisdiction" (often the inspector, but not always) to approve "equipment and materials". They usually base their approval on the listing by a recognized testing agency such as UL. Since the medical tape you used is not UL listed he had nothing on which to base his approval. Review 90.1 and 90.4 in the NEC and you may understand better.
Steelbuster,
It is the responsibility of the "Authority Having Jurisdiction" (often the inspector, but not always) to approve "equipment and materials". They usually base their approval on the listing by a recognized testing agency such as UL. Since the medical tape you used is not UL listed he had nothing on which to base his approval. Review 90.1 and 90.4 in the NEC and you may understand better.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Homeowner DIY
With some of the recent pics posted here recently I would be hard pressed to say that using medical tape to identify the neutral is CHEEZEY,after all duct tape is permissable for this Neater than what I have seen some so called professional electricians do.
With some of the recent pics posted here recently I would be hard pressed to say that using medical tape to identify the neutral is CHEEZEY,after all duct tape is permissable for this
Neater than what I have seen some so called professional electricians do.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: Homeowner DIY
You came to the right place. Some of these guys will find fault with ANY installation.
Re: Homeowner DIY
Very nice work.
BTW, I don't personally see a problem with using the medical tape, and in fact, I think it's unnecessary to have to mark this conductor in the panel in the first place, at the weather-head yes.
Roger
Very nice work.
BTW, I don't personally see a problem with using the medical tape, and in fact, I think it's unnecessary to have to mark this conductor in the panel in the first place, at the weather-head yes.
Roger
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Homeowner DIY
Great job,perhaps the inspector just found it to hard to say the same.As per the need of marking it white,that is a must as it is a grounded conductor.Have even had a few inspectors suggest white paint.
Great job,perhaps the inspector just found it to hard to say the same.As per the need of marking it white,that is a must as it is a grounded conductor.Have even had a few inspectors suggest white paint.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Homeowner DIY
Steelbuster why is there a bare copper heading out with the service conductors?
By the way the panel looks great but Scott is correct you came to the right place if you want comments.
Don't take it personal, the last few weeks I have been working at a large building that I helped bring out of the ground 10 years ago. I find myself criticizing a lot of my own work.
[ November 17, 2005, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
Steelbuster why is there a bare copper heading out with the service conductors?
By the way the panel looks great but Scott is correct you came to the right place if you want comments.
Don't take it personal, the last few weeks I have been working at a large building that I helped bring out of the ground 10 years ago. I find myself criticizing a lot of my own work.
[ November 17, 2005, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: iwire ]
steelbuster
Member
- Location
- mn
Re: Homeowner DIY
Thank you all for the positive comments. The tape not being UL listed might be a valid point if there is some requirment for it to be listed.
Oh well, I've calmed down a lot since then and it doesn't seem so important now.
The bare ground is going out to the supplementary ground rod. It exits through a drain hole in the LB.
I grew up in the wilds of Montana in the early 1900's and learned to do what you had to do to make things work. Common sense was the rule out there and it's hard to shake that thinkng.
I really enjoy reading the forum even though I don't do this work anymore.
Thank you all for the positive comments. The tape not being UL listed might be a valid point if there is some requirment for it to be listed.
Oh well, I've calmed down a lot since then and it doesn't seem so important now.
The bare ground is going out to the supplementary ground rod. It exits through a drain hole in the LB.
I grew up in the wilds of Montana in the early 1900's and learned to do what you had to do to make things work. Common sense was the rule out there and it's hard to shake that thinkng.
I really enjoy reading the forum even though I don't do this work anymore.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Homeowner DIY
Thanks and that sounds good.
- Status