Homeowner permit

[Vinniem]

I was told by someone that if the homeowner takes an electrical permit out in their name, then an unlicensed electrician can do the work for him, since it will be inspected by the AHJ.

I was under the impression that if the homeowner takes it out in their name, they are suppose to do the work.

I don't agree with this. Am I right?

 

[celtic]

I don't have the exact statute, but this should answer your question:

http://www.ridgefieldpark.org/buildingdept.html

CAN I DO THE WORK MYSELF?
Carpenters do not have to be licensed in New Jersey, however, Plumbers, Electricians and Fire Alarm contractors are required to have a State License.
Homeowners of an owner-occupied single family home may do their own work. They may not have a friend, relative or neighbor do the plumbing or electrical work; the homeowner must personally do the work.
A PERMIT IS STILL REQUIRED FROM THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT.

 

[charlie b]

It's a good bet that this would vary from place to place. You would have to check the rules in whatever jurisdiction has authority in the area of interest.

 

[bill addiss]

In one of the areas near me the owner would have to take a competency exam himself if he were taking out a permit for Electrical work.

Bill

 

[cowboyjwc]

Ours permit has two options:

1. I, as owner of the property, or my employees with wages as their sole compensation, will do the work.

2. I, as owner of the property, am exclusively contracting with licensed contractors to construct the project.

And no matter which on they sign, there is really no way to check.

 

[bill addiss]

(to further clarify my post above) - that is for Residential work involving the Homeowner doing the work. I don't know if that would apply to other occupancies.

Bill

 

[macmikeman]

My state does not allow homeowners to do any electrical work unless they go out and serve an apprenticeship, pass the j-man test, and then they can work on their own or anybody else's house. That is a pretty good way to ensure the quality of the work, and to protect any person who is purchasing the property if it is later sold off. The only problem is the lack of enforcement, and the modern trend of tv shows and big box stores promoting the idea that electrical work is easy to do.

 

[brian john]

[quality]That is a pretty good way to ensure the quality of the work, [\quality]

Not so sure about that...If a home owner does the work and it passes the inspection how is that any different that a electrician doing the work and it passes?

I have seen some pretty lousy work (sloppy and/or not NEC compliant)installed by electricians that passed inspection.

 

[macmikeman]

[quality]That is a pretty good way to ensure the quality of the work, [\quality]

Not so sure about that...If a home owner does the work and it passes the inspection how is that any different that a electrician doing the work and it passes?

I have seen some pretty lousy work (sloppy and/or not NEC compliant)installed by electricians that passed inspection.

True enough, I agree wholeheartedly. But I have also seen the most completely ignorant dangerous installs done by homeowners themselves. Example (wish I had a dig camera when I found this) a homeowner sets up a workbench in his garage. Puts a male cord cap on a 14-2 cable, and strung together 4 or 5 receptacle outlets without any boxes, all held in place along the pegboard above the workbench by removing the 6-32" screws and driving drywall screws thru the yolk to hold the exposed outlets firmly against the pegboard. Not even any electrical tape wrap, just exposed. I am fairly sure you would not find even a sloppy electrician who would set up something like that. Yes there was no inspection of this wonderous creation, but like I said, what trained person would do something like that, inspection or not?

 

[satcom]

[quality]That is a pretty good way to ensure the quality of the work, [\quality]

Not so sure about that...If a home owner does the work and it passes the inspection how is that any different that a electrician doing the work and it passes?

I have seen some pretty lousy work (sloppy and/or not NEC compliant)installed by electricians that passed inspection.

I will also agree, the homeowner has the right to do his own work, as long as it complies with codes, and a permit was obtained.

Some of the problems you don't hear about are when the homeowner has someone else do the work, under a homeowner permit, and is not installed to code, leaving the homeowner with a mess.
Also when the homeowner lets someone on their property without workers comp coverages he puts his property up for grabs should the worker become injured, and if for any reason the worker does any damage to the property, he may have a hard time collecting from his insurer, primits are not the only problem, your largest investment of your life, your home, is at stake, but people do strange things thinking they are saving a few bucks.

 

[infinity]

I was told by someone that if the homeowner takes an electrical permit out in their name, then an unlicensed electrician can do the work for him, since it will be inspected by the AHJ.

I was under the impression that if the homeowner takes it out in their name, they are suppose to do the work.

I don't agree with this. Am I right?

They're supposed to do the work themselves but most do not. They'll have someone else do it (relative, guy doing a side job, friend, etc) and the HO will file for the permit. This happens every single day in NJ. And regardless of who signed the permit, if you're doing a side job and the place burns down rest assured that his insurance company will come after you.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I do have to say I saw the most beautiful HO electrical job the other day. I went inside to sign the paper and he had a code book, a codecheck, and a couple of other books there, my guess is at least $200 worth.

Turns out he's an engineer and you know how those guys are, but I would have put him up against any of the guys we have working around here right now.

 

[augie47]

homeowner

homeowner

In TN., other than major metro areas with their own rules, a homeowner or immediate family may wire a personal reisidence (some limitations). I see this daily. Most often it's a guise for some "electrican' who can't pass the qualification test to get around the rules. In rare instances, the actual homeowner does and exceptional job. Often they take great on detail. On this forum, those of us with years of experience, often disagree on code issues. The average homeowner hasn't a clue. Perhaps I have a bad attitude, but the $25 bucks I get to check and see if the installation is code compliant, doesn't include instructions. If I have to expalin to you "why" a certain procedure needs to be followed, there are probably five things hidden from view that you didn't know about.
When I began inspecting, I leaned more toward "it's the guy's house, he should be able to do what he wants" attitude. Then when I noticed 3/4 of the "homeownr" wired house were up for sale within a year to some unsuspecting soul, I changed my attitude.
Sorry for the "vent". I just came home from inspecting homeowners jobs.

 

[emahler]

I do have to say I saw the most beautiful HO electrical job the other day. I went inside to sign the paper and he had a code book, a codecheck, and a couple of other books there, my guess is at least $200 worth.

Turns out he's an engineer and you know how those guys are, but I would have put him up against any of the guys we have working around here right now.

so long as you didn't have to pay him by the hour

 

[emahler]

working in the same towns as the OP, I can say without a doubt that there are no towns in the area that allow unlicensed electricians to work on a HO permit for money.

The HO can pull a permit for their personal single family dwelling only..and do the work themselves...

 

[coulter]

I do have to say I saw the most beautiful HO electrical job the other day. I went inside to sign the paper and he had a code book, a codecheck, and a couple of other books there, my guess is at least $200 worth.

Turns out he's an engineer and you know how those guys are, but I would have put him up against any of the guys we have working around here right now.

What did you do? Sneak a look at my place?:roll:

so long as you didn't have to pay him by the hour

emahler -
You are dead on. My work may look fine and be fine. But I would starve to death trying to do it for money.

carl

 

[infinity]

working in the same towns as the OP, I can say without a doubt that there are no towns in the area that allow unlicensed electricians to work on a HO permit for money.

The HO can pull a permit for their personal single family dwelling only..and do the work themselves...

Allow is the operative word. However this is going on all over the state. Try to compete with an unemployed electrician on a service upgrade where the HO is pulling the permit. He'll under bid you 100 out of 100 times. IMO the towns do very little to police who is actually doing the work. I know of a guy who actually meets with the inspector with questions when the HO pulls the permit. Enforcement is just about non-existent.

 

[emahler]

Allow is the operative word. However this is going on all over the state. Try to compete with an unemployed electrician on a service upgrade where the HO is pulling the permit. He'll under bid you 100 out of 100 times. IMO the towns do very little to police who is actually doing the work. I know of a guy who actually meets with the inspector with questions when the HO pulls the permit. Enforcement is just about non-existent.

i recall making a bit of a ruckus on this very board regarding unlicensed moonlighters and work...

but yes, you are correct.

and unfortunately, most contractors are fiercely independent. so indepenedent that we feel it's wrong to turn in someone doing something illegal that takes food off our table.

until we police ourselves, no one else will...it's much easier for the towns/government to police those of us that are licensed and obvious, than those who are in the shadows.

 

[satcom]

Allow I know of a guy who actually meets with the inspector with questions when the HO pulls the permit. Enforcement is just about non-existent.

If you know the guy, then it should be easy to just turn him in, You should follow the laws, and he can just turn his nose up, in my area the EC's are on a constant lookout for these guys, and they drop a dime on anyone. looks like the only way to clean it up, self police it.

 

[ty]

If a home owner does the work and it passes the inspection how is that any different that a electrician doing the work and it passes?

Brian,
I respect your opinion, but this statement does not hold water with me.

For starters, an Inspector just does not have the time to look at everything.
They rely on a competant electrician to do work to Code.
They usually get to know what to look for with what company, and they try to catch the obvious.

A (licensed, at least) Electrician, has a lot on the line. Including livelyhood and reputation.

I have seen some pretty lousy work (sloppy and/or not NEC compliant)installed by electricians that passed inspection.

I agree that some electricians are horrible craftsmen. It happens in every trade.
And, 'passes inspection' doesn't always mean 'great job' no matter who did the work.