Homeowner permit

[charlie b]

I have posted this before, and I may again. Feel free to quote at will; I do not claim a copyright. Here it is:

The one electrical concept that is least well understood by the ?do it yourself person,? indeed it is seldom even perceived by the DIY, is this:

• IF you finish the job without yourself having suffered any injury,

• AND IF when you turn it on, there are no sparks,

• AND IF the thing you installed appears to work (i.e., the light goes on or the motor spins),

• THEN it is still very wrong to conclude that the job was done safely!

There may still be a safety hazard, just waiting for an unfortunate person to touch the wrong thing under the wrong circumstances. It may take years before the problem makes itself known. You may have moved by then, and may never learn of the error that you made.

The biggest advantage of having a professional do the work is that you never have to wonder what is lurking behind the wall.

 

[nysprkdude]

[quality]That is a pretty good way to ensure the quality of the work, [\quality]

Not so sure about that...If a home owner does the work and it passes the inspection how is that any different that a electrician doing the work and it passes?

I have seen some pretty lousy work (sloppy and/or not NEC compliant)installed by electricians that passed inspection.

As an electrical inspector in a fair sized city, I struggle daily with this dilemma. I don't have the time to personally inspect every wire connection, wire routing and load calculation performed by the homeowner or electrician.

At least when it's a licensed professional, who places their integrity on the line with each permit and/or inspection, there is a responsibility attached to the job as well as accountability.

What I find most often is that the owner/occupant of the property signs a legal statement certifying that they are indeed performing the electrical installation, however; they are being "helped" by so and so who IS an electrician.

There is no recourse nor means of tracking how long an owner/occupant will actually occupy a property.

More often than not, the property is sold shortly thereafter by the guy who is a regular viewer of "Flip This House" or some similar program.

I can't predict how you may value the safety of your family or friends that may eventually occupy that house but I would prefer that unless it's a very simple installation....I would rather not inspect work done by the homeowner.

Inspectors are not omnicient.

What we can't see is difficult to assess.

At least with a licensed contractor we have accountability.

 

[zbang]

[*]IF you finish the job without yourself having suffered any injury,
[/list]

• AND IF when you turn it on, there are no sparks,

• AND IF the thing you installed appears to work (i.e., the light goes on or the motor spins),

• THEN it is still very wrong to conclude that the job was done safely!

As they say, what does that have to do do with the price of tea in China? What does "job done safely? mean, anyway? To many people, it means that the workplace was operated in a safe manner (example: no drywall mud bucket ladders). It does not mean that the design was correct or that a good design was correctly installed.

Whether or not things work as expected has -nothing- (well, little) to do with whether the workers are "safe". It relies on the installer and designer's knowledge to build something that will be "safe" when operated.

The biggest advantage of having a professional do the work is that you never have to wonder what is lurking behind the wall.

Anybody ever gone into a new-to-you facility and asked "Why does XXX work like that? It doesn't make any sense."? Even so, whatever it was was probably installed by a professional, but you're still wondering about it. Sometimes you're thinking "Who did this botchwork?"

I have great respect for the PEs out there, but as this forum demonstrates, errors creep in to plans, specs changes, "qualified" professionals make changes without understanding the scope of the change, etc. Yes, on average the work done someone with 10+ years in the trade will be more "workmanlike" than that of Steve Homeowner, but it still might have 14g coming off a 20a breaker to a string of receptacles.

Side note- there are two very distinct groups of HOs here- the "who cares slap up that light", and the guy that has a code book & local amendments, pulls a permit for the work, and passes inspection with a "nice work" from the AHJ.

z!

 

[kkwong]

Side note- there are two very distinct groups of HOs here- the "who cares slap up that light", and the guy that has a code book & local amendments, pulls a permit for the work, and passes inspection with a "nice work" from the AHJ.

z!

I have to agree there. I think we tend to group HO's in to one category when in fact they fit in to many categories, just like we do. I am not implying a kinship with the average HO, but there are those who know what to do, how to do it right and follow the codes/ordinances. Then there are those who keep my brothers in fire suppression busy with their "wiring" and it scares me.

As a side note, does anyone know of a city/jurisdiction that has a dollar amount for "Homeowner allowed" work? I recall something like that in the Bay Area, but I could be wrong.

 

[dab]

it's diffucult at best to not laugh at these absurd situations. a ho is not nor should he/she be allowed to do their own work. as a ec who inspects work on occasion i can tell you they are more likely to kill or hurt someone than you would like to realize. how about a 3 way switch with the e.g. used as one of the travellers. or better yet the 2 pole 40 amp breaker that feeds the clothes dryer, the clothes washer, some outlets in the kitchen and some misc, lighting. the point is we are professionals and that's the way it is!!!!!

 

[iwire]

a ho is not nor should he/she be allowed to do their own work.

I thought we lived in a free country.

As far as HOs 'not' being allowed to do their own work that depends entirely on the local rules.

Here where I am a HO can legally do their own electrical work in their own home and whats more due to an odd wording of the law are also not required to get a permit or inspection.

Might as well leave it that way as you will never stop a home owner from working on their own home and I am not sure the government should stop them.

 

[coulter]

dab -

You and charlie got me laughing. Not at the "absurd suitations", but the "absurd assertions"

carl

edited to fix my non-profesional HO spelling.

 

[coulter]

Bob -

Perhaps not a free country, but at least a republic - for which I am thankful. I agree with your principles

carl

 

[kbsparky]

working in the same towns as the OP, I can say without a doubt that there are no towns in the area that allow unlicensed electricians to work on a HO permit for money.

The HO can pull a permit for their personal single family dwelling only..and do the work themselves...

What are the rules for when the unlicensed persons do the work for free? Is the homeowner allowed to have someone help him on the install, so long as they are not getting paid for it?